Ep. 1993: The High-Yield Trapdoor

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Before we get to the show, quickly, the story

Ancient Money Myths

SPEAKER_02 1:11

of the music. That is the oldest genre, I believe, we have experimented with on talking real money. That is what is called a Greek skolion. Skolion. S-K-O-L-I-O-N. It is a short drinking song poem sung by guests at uh banquets and the like. And the reason I did it is because I finally got around to seeing the Odyssey in the theater on a supposedly a 70 millimeter digital screen at AMC Theaters, which, by the way, movie theaters are done. Folks, I just have to share this with you. They may not admit it yet, but they're done. That's projector was flashing throughout every bright scene. It was strobing because their equipment's getting old. It's just movie theaters are done.

SPEAKER_06 2:03

But anyway, my ears were bleeding when I saw that thing. That was so loud.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

The movie was very good. I thought it was a great movie. But wow. It was hard to watch. But anyway, I was Greek inspired. So I went back and did some research on ancient Greek, and it was they sort of took a poem and put it to music, and that was about saving for the future poem that I created.

SPEAKER_06 2:29

I think when I was there recently, I had the Greek skull scullion, was it? Yeah, I think it was they put a little butter on it, I think some capers or something. It was delicious, if I remember right. I think that was in Italy, Tom.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

I think you confused your uh ancient countries.

SPEAKER_06 2:42

It wouldn't surprise me that it's all wound into one.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Blended together. Hi, everybody. Welcome to Talking Real Money, the place where we put ancient myths to rest. Boy. Like Greek myths, Roman myth, doesn't matter. The mythology is something we don't buy into.

Covered Call Hype

SPEAKER_02 3:00

And one of the most popular forms of financial mythology, as opposed to financial physics, is the concept of getting high returns magically in a very special, extra smart person kind of portfolio. And the kind we're referring to is uh a portfolio we've talked about before, but we really haven't done it the justice it needs. And there was a recent article, Tom, that you I think have in front of you there. Yes, I think that touted some special ETFs for special, special people who get special high income.

SPEAKER_06 3:37

Yeah, it's astounding. So you you've heard us talk about the 4% rule, right? If you if you build a properly balanced portfolio between stocks and bonds, you know, you could withdraw 4% a year over a long period of time and the portfolio would sustain sustain itself.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Yeah, I swear. You you really it's that that that Roadrunner cartoon has stuck with you.

SPEAKER_06 4:01

Boy, that was the one. You've got the list and you've got the stutter. That was a great film. Uh but here's the thing. So when people come along and tell you, well, wait, four sounds good. Five would be really nice, but how about 12.5% yield? That's just that's I love this headline.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

The headline, the headline is such clickbait. One million in these three ETFs pays more than $100,000 a year without touching principal. That from a place called 24-7 Wall Street was the same.

SPEAKER_06 4:31

Yeah, which I don't I don't know that as a source, but I do know this. There's a lot of this out there, and there's a lot of big promises. So what they're talking about here is putting a million dollars uh across three funds J E P Q, G P I X, and IWMI. That the three of them, the blend is a 12.6% yield. So on the million you just mentioned, you're generating $126,000 a year. And the article points out this is triple the 10-year treasury. Well, not quite, by the way, because the 10-year is closer to five now. But um, it's pretty pretty ridiculous. But I guess when I read this, Don, and you're gonna know this better than I am, how in the world do they create 12.5% a year without running out of money? Well, this is how do you do that?

SPEAKER_02 5:25

This is that old magic trick in the investment industry that has had its day and then fell out of grace and then had its day again, like everything else that's gimmicky. Uh, this is the idea of buying a portfolio of stocks and then selling someone else the right to buy those stocks at a slightly higher price for a premium some date in the future. And it's called covered call writing.

SPEAKER_06 5:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

You buy stocks or an index, and then you sell someone else the right to buy it. What you're doing is you're giving away some of your upside, and you're still subject to the downside. That's the part this article didn't really get into. No, I didn't get into, didn't mention. Yeah. Period. Um, and well, let's use let's use one of the more extreme examples. Let's use the JEPQ. That's the JP Morgan NASDAQ Equity Premium Income ETF. Right. That's the uh triple Q's, the NASDAQ 100, and then they write options against it, and it's generating over 12% right now. Um and uh the risk, the downside risk, is still there. The triple Q has had extreme volatility over its life. It's a very risky portfolio. You could lose 20, 30, 40, 50 percent of your value in a really bad market, and you're gonna get only a modicum of protection from that covered call writing. Because remember, when prices are falling, people get negative. When they've been falling for a while, people get really negative. And so those call premiums, right now, there's a great deal of optimism about the future of these smaller company, NASDAQ kind of stocks, because they're all the rage. So call premiums are really high, which is why they can get a 12 plus percent return when actually the index itself has done over long periods of time. In fact, the small cap stock index for a hundred years almost, we're just shy, has returned about eleven and a half percent per year, maybe twelve.

SPEAKER_06 7:37

Yeah, a bit better than the S P 500.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Better than the S P 500, but still not as good as the call writing premium you you're getting right now, because that is a best case scenario premium right now. We will have worst-case scenarios. We will have them. And you won't get your 12 and a half? No, you're not gonna get a long-term 12.5% return from these things. Because, okay, come on. It it makes no sense that they can make more right now and continue to make more than the indexes and the the small company stocks themselves made in the past hundred years. That just doesn't make sense, does it? Not long term.

SPEAKER_06 8:17

No, I think people hear 12.6, and that concludes the conversation. By the way, um, these are not crazily expensive funds. JEP Q expense ratio 0.35, GPIX 0.29, IWMI, a little more on the spendy side, 76 basis points. But uh the volatility that you mentioned uh is fairly extreme uh and and very stock-like, right? Of course, because they own these options. So JEPQ at 13.8, J G P I X 13.9, and interestingly enough, IWMI at 13.9. You got to expect things to go up and down here. I this is

The Tax Trap

SPEAKER_06 9:01

I I worry that people read this and think, why are you telling me four? And if I'm lucky, five, and yet I can go get 12. I mean, what's our answer to that?

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Well, okay, let's use you just mentioned the last one you mentioned was IWMI, which is the iShares Russell 2000 small companies, and it's a big what broad index uh by right ETFs, which means they're buying stocks and writing call options. Uh so you're you're getting current income by selling the s the call options, which means you're giving up your upside. That's right. You're you're you're giving up the big potential gains for small cap stocks. Uh and the downside is that the option premiums only give you a little bit of a cushion against a downturn. So you could have, as I said, a 40-50% downturn in these in a really bad market. And the problem is that net asset value may never recover. Why? Because remember, what were you giving up? You were giving up the upside. So if it declines a lot, they can't claw back that net asset value. Yeah, okay, you may get your premiums, but they may not be as high in the future as they are now because you lose the optimism, you lose the excess premium. And that's happened in the past multiple times. This has not worked well long term. And never has it worked long term at these kinds of returns. Plus, these are complicated tax-wise.

SPEAKER_06 10:33

Well, I was gonna get to that. I mean, is this the kind of product that a do-it-yourselfer should be using?

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Well, you won't love them when you go to go to fill out your tax return because it'd be horrendous. Yeah, but the the main problem is that almost everything gets treated as ordinary income and and current ordinary income. So if you're in a high bracket, you're gonna get killed on these things. There's very little, if any, capital gain uh uh accrual over the course of years.

SPEAKER_06 11:01

Trevor Burrus Extreme volatility, uh so uh you know, taxation, uh risk. I mean, so this is again uh it this feels like a gimmick.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

It is a gimmick. It's a gimmick. And if you you look, it's it's uh it's the Wall Street trying to find a a new way to convince you to give them your money, and they're doing it with with illusions. This is all sleight of hand. This this is not real. There it makes again, I want to go back to the duh factor. Think about it from that standpoint. Does it make sense that a fund with a little bit higher fees that is writing options against the upside of stocks can perform better long term than just owning the stocks at lower fees? No, too many middle people in the middle to who have to make money along the way. The option traders, the fund managers, the the it's just a it's a trick. And it it's worked at times, and the problem is they get touted during periods when they have been working or after which they've been working, and then they fall from grace and we forget about how bad they were when they go down.

SPEAKER_06 12:21

Yeah, I I looked at a couple of because it sounds when you read this headline like you give them the million, they're gonna give you the $126,000, $126,000 a year. That sounds a little bit like a retirement income fund in some way. So I just took a look, for example, dimensional funds as the TDIFX, which is their retirement income fund. The payout there, 3.2%. Vanguards, VTINX, 3.36. Now, it does not invest in the exotic options, it doesn't have any of that sort of product in it. This is simply stocks and bonds. You get the yield uh at the end of the year after they've run off. I mean, it's a completely different product, but I think people compare them. And so they're gonna say, well, why would I take 3.5% when I could make 12.5%? That's or make, by the way, get yield in my in my bank.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

And the and the thing that we have to remember is that that that was not that was not return, really. That that was an income stream generated uh from this extreme strategy that really is not as magical as it appears. And by the way, I did go back and try to find a covered call writing fund that has been around for a long time.

SPEAKER_06 13:42

Survive 2008.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Survive 2008, yeah. Uh it's and I found one called the Gateway Fund, which is a covered call writing fund that goes back to 1977. And if you look at the chart, you can find that there has been some extreme volatility that you weren't protected in those big downturns. It had a terrible, by the way, it had a terrible time in uh 2022. This fund lost, oh gosh, let me look.

SPEAKER_06 14:16

Uh yeah, I mean, because that again, the optimism was gone. Yeah, the optimism went away. This thing lost.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Yeah, like 15 percent of its value in just a couple of months. Uh so these aren't panaceas. These aren't magic, these aren't going to make you more money with less risk. They do really well at some. As a matter of fact, I'm looking at the uh the gateway fund going back. It they've they've done worse than the the market, which we would expect, because you're giving up some of the upside. Uh, but from oh, let's see, about well, from 2015 through 2023, they really dramatically underperformed just owning the equities, and the risk is very similar. You don't you give up the upside, your risk is similar, and you get a only a tiny bit of protection on the downside. It's very, very

Bridge For Sale

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small.

SPEAKER_06 15:19

And if that sounds like a good idea to you, yes, Don and I do have a bridge in Arizona we'd like to talk to you about.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

You're talking about the London bridge? Do we still have that bridge? I think it's a like have a Sioux City or something, right?

SPEAKER_06 15:32

I think you're right.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

The Brits sold it once. You could sell it again.

SPEAKER_06 15:35

I know, why not, right?

Listener Questions Begin

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Now we come to the time when you get to put your questions to us and we try to answer them for you on the program. We uh we take pretty much everything, unless it's not really a question or it's just really strange.

SPEAKER_06 15:51

But usually we did a lot of promotional stuff lately, too. Yeah, a lot of promotional stuff.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Everybody wanting to be interviewed. You know, this is a good, a great, a great use for AI. I have trained ChatGPT to go in and check my emails from somebody pitching a guest idea for the program. It's always somebody selling something obnoxious that the the totally opposite of what we believe. And so chat sends a nice note saying, no, and it's really much more polite than my notes were. My notes were pretty brusque? Yeah, that's a nice word. That's a nice word.

SPEAKER_03 16:27

Take you into a more pleasant corner.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

So uh if you want to send us questions, go to talkingrealmoney.com, click the button that says ask a question, or record them with the microphone in the corner for the Friday QA podcast. And Tom.

SPEAKER_06 16:39

And how's the Friday numbers coming? For you getting a lot of calls? Oh, heck yeah. Let me Yeah, because I've just been a little short on the written ones.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

We're still Yeah, no, the called in ones are better than the Okay. Can you blame them lately?

SPEAKER_06 16:56

Not really.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

If you really get to know, it's been a little testy lately.

SPEAKER_06 17:00

A little? I think more than a little. All right. So you want some of these?

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Yeah, these are paper ones. These are printed ones.

SPEAKER_06 17:07

These are fairly lengthy. Uh comes from Timothy in Miramar Beach, Florida. Says uh Don and Tom, I'm a retired federal employee with an individual retirement account, IRA, TSP, Thrift Savings Plan, and a brokerage brokerage account. Each contains about $500,000. My wife and I live comfortably on my pension and our Social Security. We do not have any Roth money. Okay. Do you want to say anything there? Okay. Uh even though I've been taking RMDs the last five years, I use QCDs to eliminate much of this. Despite taking large chunks from the TSP, from my uh TSP in the excess of the RMD, most of those funds end up in the brokerage account. In other words, he's not spending the money he's required to take out of the IRA. And with the markets over the last few years, my tax advantage accounts are growing instead of shrinking. Later, when we leave our estate to our children, there will be a large tax bill from the mandatory liquidation of retirement accounts. That's 10 years. Right? Non-spousal. It's 10 years. 2025, the TSP changed its rules to allow the conversion of funds in the TSP to a Roth TSP. That is correct.

SPEAKER_03 18:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 18:17

My plan would be to start doing that next year. Among just reducing taxes for my heirs, I value simplicity. I do not want to open an IRA.

unknown 18:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 18:28

I appreciate these simpler, low-cost options of the TSP, and I can make life less taxing if and when my wife becomes a widow. She would not be dependent on retirement accounts for living expenses. I mean, I'm trying to

Roth Conversion Dilemma

SPEAKER_06 18:38

get through there's a lot of words here, but he's asking, should I execute my plan to begin Roth conversions from the TSP to a Roth TSP? Should he do a conversion?

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Well, I assume he's done some tax planning.

SPEAKER_06 18:50

Ah, I thought I was just gonna get to because that's rather important when it comes to the process.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

Because here's the thing. If you expect that your tax bracket will be higher in the future, because you just save so much and so much is going to be coming out, then yeah. If it's lower now and it'll be higher in the future, there's there's a a benefit to a Roth conversion as long as you pay the taxes out of other taxable monies you have sitting around. Is it a dramatic difference? For most people, probably not. If you expect to be in a lower bracket in the future, then leave the stuff the heck alone.

SPEAKER_06 19:31

Aaron Powell Yeah, but okay, but think this through because he's really talking about his wife.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

That makes it even more confusing.

SPEAKER_06 19:37

Trevor Burrus, Jr. It does, because you know, the tax all those things are going to look different with one person. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

She'll probably be in a higher rate because she's getting singly, yes.

SPEAKER_06 19:47

Trevor Burrus, Jr. So maybe. Again, this should be done very carefully. Um if you're already retired, uh for the first part is do you have the cash to pay the extra taxes?

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Right. That's critical because you don't want to pay the taxes out of the IRA or the number two.

SPEAKER_06 19:59

I would annually look at this. It's not just a one-shot binary decision for the next 10 years. I would be looking at this annually, looking at my income to see if it makes sense. Um and number three, we've said this many times in many ways. I still believe, and we'll continue to say this, I guess, until my dying breath, if you're leaving money to your children, not your wife, different circumstance, but your children who cares to pay tax on it, they got to pay tax on it. As people have been saying to me about my emotional departure of my daughter, boo-hoo, get over it. So uh I'm gonna say it now. Boohoo, get over it. That's just the way it goes.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

You're absolutely right. I mean, really, they're they're getting free money. I I know this is uh we I we have a dear friend. This is the the the mindset these days of uh some of our our our progeny. Her kid asked her, she's a she's she she's a widow. Her kid said, so mom, um what are you How much am I getting? Yes, no, yes, oh goodness. Her mom's not that old. How much am I getting? And you know, rather than waiting, I really can't afford a house now. Can I just get it now?

SPEAKER_06 21:10

What? That's an interesting conversation. I mean, now if it was your idea to help your child buy a house, that's different than they coming to you, I think, and saying, Hey, I got my hand up. You got a lot of money there, old lady. Uh, you mind kicking me a few now so I can get a house? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

No, but see, here's the thing is that we those of us who have a little bit of money put aside, finally, after decades of trying to get it. It wasn't easy. No. We're trying to here's the thing. Will that child, if you get in trouble with health or whatever, will they sell you their house and give you the money back?

SPEAKER_06 21:46

Give me a break. That's a one way to get their ass.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

You don't understand. An inheritance is if you're lucky and there's something left over, okay. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

But that's it's not your break. Unless of course you were born into like a billionaire family, but otherwise just regular folks like that.

SPEAKER_06 22:06

Even then, I don't know. There's more than a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

No, I think that's right. You can have the China. You don't want the China anyway.

SPEAKER_06 22:12

So Timothy, yes, is the short answer, but you should be looking at this very, very carefully.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

What are we t oh oh the the rock? The conversion. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Oh, you're just putting you're punctuating

Small Fund Concerns

SPEAKER_02 22:25

the the Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 22:26

Knoxville, Tennessee. We get Diane writing us, hi Tom and Don. I love your podcast so much. I think we should just leave it right there. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Thank you so much. And please join us again another day.

SPEAKER_06 22:39

Great information. Plus, you make me feel validated in my choice to lean towards value in my investing. Good. I love that. Um, yes, she says first. Avantis does have a balanced ETF, A V M A. Now, I'm gonna have to go Maya culpa on this one because apparently it came up and I said no, they did not. That was wrong. She says it's roughly 65% in stocks, 35% in bonds, US 45, international 20. So um, here's my follow-up. I really like the looks of this fund. I'm interested in buying it, but it has a very low AUM under 100 million, and the spread on the price is over 100%. That's pretty dramatic.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Um, what was the symbol again?

SPEAKER_06 23:27

AVMA. Alpha Victoria. A VMA. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

I thought it was on A VMA.

SPEAKER_06 23:33

Mary Alpha, yeah. So um makes just that makes her nervous. Should an investor buy such a small fund? And if so, how do you handle making a buy? I've never had a limit order in my life. I've stuck to huge funds with a couple of cents in the spread, so I click market order and call it a day. Um, I really have a hundred percent, a hundred percent. That seems like quite a spread.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

Well, yeah, that would be I don't know what its share price is right now, but let me look.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

Uh gee, no. I I find its spread is about a little over a tenth of a percent.

SPEAKER_06 24:14

Yeah, and here's the thing about these spreads. No, this does come up before we get into the fund specifics, but it comes up, and here's the thing you're not trading this every day. You're buying this for the long haul. So if the price differential, if it's a little bit there, I don't think that would be a big deal if this is something you're gonna hold for the next 10 or 15 years, personally. Well, I think 10 or 15 minutes, yeah, that's worth looking into. But in this case, probably not.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

Yeah, I I'm just like, for example, I'm looking at today when we recorded this show, and um the the price has fluctuated between get this $72.29 a share and $72.49 a share.

SPEAKER_06 24:57

Yeah. So 2020 on seven, I mean it's that's a pretty small number. Um, but to the fund itself, because we did when we got this note, and again, I'm going to apologize for having it wrong. We looked into the fund. Now, the stock side we're very familiar with, right? Because we know it pretty well. Yeah. We know the Advantis products, and this is a fund of funds. On the other side, the the fixed income side, you found some reason to be concerned.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Well, it's just it they're you They're going to what they believe are some factors that might improve return and and maybe risk. Um and they're getting into some eclectic a little bit of eclectic fixed income in terms of like private equity or private income. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_06 25:47

Well, half of it is right on the edge of being junk. No, that's just the one fund.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

That's just the one fund.

SPEAKER_06 25:55

All of the one Okay, not half of the fundamental. Now of the portfolio.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

But they have half of the one the They have uh an income fund that is not strictly a bond fund that has other things in it. And so that is of slightly lower quality. Is it enough to disqualify it? Trevor Burrus, Jr. Yeah, that's the question. No. Okay. But I would not be rushing out to get it because I think it's so easy to build a fixed and equity portfolio using an AVGE and a B and D or an A V E and a and a C D ladder or something.

SPEAKER_06 26:32

Aaron Powell That's exactly the point. So um and if you had to pick between this and the Vanguard balanced index fund, which I think is just U.S. stocks, though. That doesn't have to be a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Yeah, that's a problem with the Vanguard balanced. Plus, it doesn't have the the small value till true.

SPEAKER_06 26:49

You don't get the stock side that we want. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

I don't know. I have mixed feelings about it. Um and and it boy, it is not a very big fund. That's shocking. No.

SPEAKER_06 26:59

That's it hasn't been around very long.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

No, it's only a couple of years old. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:04

So and this is it's a product, by the way. Avantis, as you may know, I think is most of the money comes from advisors, probably. Because they understand this, the the the the mix. Um so the public is going to be unlikely to go to them for a balanced fund. Uh advisors certainly aren't going to go to them because advisors don't they want to build their own portfolios. They want to put it on one fund and then call me in the morning. So um it's okay. That's what I would say about it.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

They have eight okay, I found the number here. They have eight percent of the portfolio in what is called the Avantis Credit ETF.

SPEAKER_06 27:41

Which half of it is in fixed income that's on the edge of being not the best. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

Yeah. It's paper that could get into trouble. It's not junk. It's close. It's not junk, but it's no, it's it's not really junk, but it could waver a little bit in bad times.

SPEAKER_06 28:11

The next recession. It could be a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

And it's shockingly, it's a shockingly non-diversified bond fund. They have 230 securities in it.

SPEAKER_06 28:23

Not very well. I mean, some of those Vanguard funds have thousands of fixed income securities in them. So yeah. Um wouldn't be at the top of my list. Still love Avantis uh, you know, for for for the funds,

Musk’s 6% Cash Offer

SPEAKER_06 28:38

right? Oh, yeah. Just not this one. Absolutely. So I and speaking of uh at the ragged edge, I guess, you know, fancy electric cars, spaceships, that's just never enough for Elon Musk. Now he wants to make you wealthy with your cash paying six percent. That's right. Uh this came about, I didn't know about it, you knew about it. I was in a meeting with a client the other day and said, Hey, what do you think of Musk's six percent offer? I was like, I don't know anything about it. So we looked it up. Don, of course, being better read than I am, apparently. Um, because they don't mention the stuff in my World War II books very much. X Money is the place. Now, here's the good news is the six percent. The bad news is you have to be invited to you can't just go sign up for the six percent. Um you have to be uh a a member. I'm not sure that's the Twitter, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:29

This is all they all they are saying officially is that you have to be invited. Which means you need to be an ex need Twitter. Used to be called Twitter. Uh you need to be an ex a regular ex user. Keep your ex app updated and watch for money to appear in the app, the menu, at uh the app menu thing. There's no public invite code anywhere that we can find. Uh it appears, at least some people on Reddit and the like are saying, or on X, are saying that premium or premium plus subscribers, those who pay for access to X. Yeah. Uh it pro it improves your chances of getting invited. God's apparently early on, only paying members were being invited. Uh yeah, it's a real six percent.

SPEAKER_06 30:26

He runs it through some other bank that is.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

He runs it through another it is. It is a ridiculously attractive rate. Yeah. Um and uh here's the thing, is that it because of its bank sweep program where it can move money between different banks, they can get passed through FDIC coverage up to ten million dollars.

SPEAKER_06 30:49

Oh, so you're better than the the 250s.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

That's a yeah, but there is no there's no way to know how long it will last. It is a temporary rate. It is a gimmick rate.

SPEAKER_06 31:03

Referred to earlier. I think that's the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

It's massively attractive, though. Wow. If I could get in, I probably would for a little while because it's easy to transfer. Yeah, but but but that means that I would have to go use X. And I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_06 31:18

I swore off No, no, no, not use it. You'd have to be a paid media. Be a paid member. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

Not only would I have to use it, but I probably have to be a paid member. Um I I swore off social media a long time ago because it was making me crazy. Yeah, I think it was it was making me crazy. It really was having an impact on my mental health. People were making me angry because they were such jerks. And I realize that most people aren't jerks in real life, but they will be jerks, as you we all have learned since the days of the social network. And now there's the the uh sequel to the social network.

SPEAKER_06 31:56

Oh, that's coming out soon, right? I'm looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Yeah.

Strange New Films

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Um, oh, speaking of movies. Unless you're paid the 16th subscriber. I don't we don't do movie reviews very often, but this one has a little financial angle to it.

SPEAKER_06 32:12

But I want to say thank you to our client who mentioned it to me, you know who you are and I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Theranos. Are you still there, or did you just flip out on me? Oh, you're still there. Okay. Well there's a new movie coming out by Nathan Fielder, who is absolutely the he's uh a unique man. Uh fascinating. It's a movie where he moved in with Elizabeth Holmes for the month before she went to prison. Oh, I saw the trailer. It's very strange. There's a new trailer that's even stranger. She's leaning across the couch at the end of the first from his face.

SPEAKER_06 32:52

I'm like, that was the first one.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

Now there's a second one. And I'm telling you, I watched the trailer and I think she was in prison or something.

SPEAKER_06 33:01

No, no, it was the month before she had to report. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. So now there's another trailer. I don't know that I want to watch it. The first one was it made me uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

I know, but it was I uh I'm gonna be there. Oh, yeah. I'm gonna go to the theater.

SPEAKER_06 33:15

Is that gonna be in the theaters?

SPEAKER_02 33:16

In the theaters. Wow.

SPEAKER_06 33:18

I don't think I want to see Elizabeth Holmes with that voice and those eyes in that big. That's just too much for me.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

Three hours and five minutes.

SPEAKER_06 33:26

Oh, no way. Not gonna happen. That's gonna be viewed at home.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

You'll be nodding off.

SPEAKER_06 33:30

As you said, theater, goodbye.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

I tell you though, this the the the trailer gave me chills.

SPEAKER_06 33:35

I the first one gave me something, but I don't want it. It wasn't good. Interesting. When is that out too? October 16th. Oh, and the new uh the new social media ones coming out pretty soon.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

Right about that same time, somewhere in there, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:48

Lot to look forward to.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

Just in time, I have to movie theaters are not as much fun as they used to be.

SPEAKER_06 33:57

They're they're we're going, we're going. I take my grandsons, they love it.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

The seats are deteriorating. The food, I mean, like a bucket of popcorn for $19? Literally overpriced $19.

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When the when the food costs more than the ticket, then you get nervous.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

When I ordered when I got the tickets online, it said, would you like to add a drink and popcorn for $29.95?

SPEAKER_06 34:19

Excuse me. What? How does that work?

SPEAKER_02 34:23

No, thank you. Is is that is is that uh organic popped right next to each other. Popcorn, yeah. We pop it at your at your seatside over a flame one kernel at a time.

SPEAKER_06 34:43

Anyway, two good films though. Those will be interesting.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

All right, thanks so much for spending some time with us. We appreciate you being there. Um, by the way, just thought I'd mention the album, The Financial Physicists.

SPEAKER_06 34:55

How's that how's the ratings on that now?

SPEAKER_02 34:57

I well, they don't you don't get ratings, you just look at the plays. And uh and and I am I get this, I am up to well over a thousand plays for the financial physicist on on uh Apple and Spotify.

SPEAKER_06 35:10

That's that's inspiring.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Well, well, get this. The economics of uh streaming music being what they are, that translates into about eleven dollars of royalties. About eleven dollars.

SPEAKER_06 35:20

Then you could get one quarter of a cup of popcorn when you go to the don't get the drink, but you can get just a few kernels

Streaming Music Payoff

SPEAKER_06 35:28

away.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

The album is called Let the Boring Money In on uh most of the major music services.

SPEAKER_06 35:33

Let the boring money in. Take it in, man. You're gonna like it.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

So all right. Thanks for being there. Send a question to us at talkingrealmoney.com. If you want to meet with somebody like Tom, or maybe even Tom, you can do that. It's free. It's free. He'll have a meeting with you. He does, and he he doesn't try to sell you anything. He just like says hi. What's your portfolio look like? Ooh, this is a mess. All right, move on. Uh, and you go to talking real money. It takes a little more time than that, click on meet an advisor. He'll do that for you. But listen every day and tell your friends thank you. We're leaving now. Oh, by the way, don't forget We're talking real money.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

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