Ep. 1989: Two Clocks, One Plan

SPEAKER_05 0:47

Talking real money.

SPEAKER_07 0:49

Tom Cock, this is your life here on Talking Real

May-December Money Plans

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Money today. Yes, we're talking about those May-December romances and the challenges that they uh cause in financial planning. They're harder to manage than when you have, you know, people like me and my wife that are almost the same age. You know, when you have people like Tom who cradle Robs, you really have to work harder at retirement. And uh that's what we're talking about today on Talking Real Money. That's our main topic, and you can join us at talkingrealmoney.com with your questions, which we'll get to later. So, Tom, how uh how are you handling this challenging issue in your relationship?

SPEAKER_06 1:37

I well, it's a couple of ways. First of all, as you know, and I have been very clear about this, my youngest just went to college. So at a time when I most people would be retired or very close to it, I'm financing, you know, a not an inexpensive school either. So um anyway, that alone adds a huge challenge. Yeah, I mean that's that's a challenge. But here we're talking about retirement for people with a fairly wide age gap between one another. Now, this talks about 10 years. I'm I am not 10 years older than my wife, so we can get that out of the way right there. We're just not gonna talk about how big it is, but it's not can we just start guessing? Nine and a half. But what we're talking about is how do you how do you plan for retirement? Yeah. Because it it does it it's by the way, it's it claims according to this article, about eight percent of opposite sex couples in the U.S. uh are in this 10-year age difference situation. So it's a it's it it's significant, right? And we I've run into it, by the way, I've run into it where there's been older women and younger men. So it's not just one or the other. We've done that plan as well. You're you're smiling because it's just not as much. Generally anyway, how do you deal with I mean species? It's our we have issues. Uh it's true. I love this article. It says um this goes way beyond just the lifestyle. Tell them where the article was from. I don't know where it was from. You sent it to me. Um this goes way be this is a quote. This goes way beyond just a lifestyle issue where the younger spouse is ready for pickleball just as the other needs a walker. It's wow. Uh there's a can't you use a walker when you're playing pickleball? Oh, it's from Market Watch. I'm sorry. Yeah, I found it. It's from Market Watch. So um, what do you do? What do you need? What do you got to do here? Because really, and this is correct, uh, they quote a planner who calls it a two-clock problem. I thought it was two o'clock because that's about the time I take my nap. But no, two o'clock problems. Older spouse. You're not planning one retirement, you're really planning two timelines with one balance sheet. Yeah, I think that's that's really good. But what do you do about all this? Uh well, for one thing, the reality is you're gonna need more money. It just it's as basic as that because somebody's gonna, I mean, like in your case, you're gonna die, you know, she's gonna outlive you.

SPEAKER_07 4:06

She's gonna way outlive me because that's what women do. They kill us off. But but not as dramatically as my wife will.

SPEAKER_06 4:12

My wife should be over there. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_07 4:14

She's gonna take you out any day now.

SPEAKER_06 4:15

Well, the water's very cold, right?

SPEAKER_07 4:18

She's gonna vacation you to death. There's gonna wait, you're on a beach, and then the next thing you know is You're gonna die by by you're gonna death by relaxation.

SPEAKER_06 4:27

Is that what they call it? Okay, I'm I'm okay with that. That's one.

Health Insurance and Social Security

SPEAKER_06 4:31

Um health insurance, huge because uh because for example, right now in our household, I'm still the larger earner and I'm the one providing the health insurance. Which my wife had to go buy it on her own, it'd be expensive.

SPEAKER_07 4:46

Well, let's say you had to leave your employer tomorrow and go on Medicare.

SPEAKER_06 4:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 4:52

How does where does that leave her?

SPEAKER_06 4:54

We'd have to write a check.

unknown 4:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:56

You'd have to go to the exchanges. Um that's huge. So uh, and then I think the other one is well, I I at the end of the day, honestly, I think the two bigger, the two biggest issues are health care. Yeah, that's one. But the other one is because the primary benefit for most people in retirement is Social Security, because most people wake up either when they retire or for some reason when they get to 65, I have yet to discover why, and say, I want my benefit. It's time. I you know, I paid into this, I want my money. Um, if you're in one of these relationships where there is a considerable age difference between the two of you, and you're the higher earner, absolutely 110% no excuse for you not to wait until age 70. Yeah, as a matter of fact, yes, you have to have the money.

SPEAKER_07 5:43

That May-December sort of relationship absolutely requires, absolutely requires that the older person figure out a way to last until uh to keep from withdrawing until 70, because you are depriving your younger spouse of a substantially higher income stream in retirement.

SPEAKER_06 6:04

Yeah.

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Unless they make more money than you.

SPEAKER_06 6:07

Yeah, true, true enough. As I'd like to make a joke and it truly doesn't get a big laugh, but you know, as I always say, I'm gonna leave you a large benefit for you and your boyfriend, you know. So and hopefully that doesn't happen until I'm gone. Uh it does, but 70, as you know, is the latest age you can start filing for Social Security. Anytime after full retirement age, you get an 8% a year raise. I just like every time I look at that, because you know, I'm closing in on 70 here, I look at the number between even now and 70. It's big, big, big number. A lot of extra money. It is a lot of money. That that will hopefully hopefully, but hopefully it'll be supplying my wife for, gosh, what, I don't know, 40 years or something along the way.

SPEAKER_07 6:50

So really we have three major problems right now. We have the you're gonna need more money because they're gonna live longer. You got the Social Security delay the filing, and then you've got the insurance one. But there's also this article also alluded to one that I had not thought about, and that is the quote widow's tax, which isn't really a widow's tax, it's the disparity between filing jointly and filing

Taxes After One Spouse

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singly. If you are gone and your wife has to file taxes as a single taxpayer, the the income that they're their brackets shoot way up at the same income levels.

SPEAKER_06 7:29

And that's probably why when it comes to planning, there should probably be the plan for the two of you and then the plan for the one of you. So that you put those numbers in. In other words, because she's gonna live a lot longer. She would live longer anyway, even if we're the same age, if you look at just the charts. But the fact that she's younger means that she's really gonna live longer. And as you said, it's the same nest egg, same house, but roughly half the shelter, right? It's it's uh you're not getting the tax break that you would with the two of you. Um that's a big deal.

SPEAKER_07 8:03

Ah, thank you. Very, very important. And and it also you know you we talk a lot about how, yeah, you can be in the accumulation phase and you really don't often need an advisor. You don't always need an advisor. No, you get to a lot of money. But if you are in that older spouse, younger spouse group, then boy, is it important that you have a fee-only fiduciary advisor helping you out? Absolutely. That's not a pitch for us. That's a pitch for all the fee-only fiduciary advisors out there who we l whom we love. We we're we love them.

SPEAKER_06 8:36

The love might be a strong word.

SPEAKER_07 8:38

Well, we we appreciate them and we don't we know it's hard to find them, but it's up to you to try to do that. You need to find somebody because you owe it to your spouse if you care about them. If you don't, don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_06 8:49

Oh, yeah, right. If it's whatever. Exactly. Because a a good advisor is going to do not just advise you on Social Security, which is gonna be huge, not just to help you figure out the health care, but also around the uh assets. Uh the proper this article makes a good point. The titling of assets in the especially in community property states like the great state of Washington, very important. Very, very, very important. You and and this is part of the planning to make sure that you're the one left is gonna have the money, and the money's gonna be accessible, and it should be treated as well as you can uh from the tax standpoint, uh, which is something that people don't think about. So, I mean, and of course, it always gets back to what you want your lifestyle to look like. Don t teases me a lot about vacations. Well, I'm I'm trying to spend some of the money while I'm still here. Not gonna be as it's not gonna be as much use to me after I'm gone. Uh so yeah, we will be her boyfriend. Earn her boyfriend. So they're gonna have some great vacations. Good times. So again, the surviv I look at this as the survivor plan. You're gonna call it the May-December plan, you know.

SPEAKER_07 9:58

Okay, but I and you know, I really hadn't thought about a lot of these things as serious financial planning challenges until I read this article and I went, yeah, it really is a lot more important than I think most people believe it to be, particular well, uh of those in that age gap relationship.

SPEAKER_06 10:17

Yeah. And so again, the higher earner probably has to work longer. The higher earner really's got to wait on set social security benefit. I'd say until 70, unless you have to have the money or there's some health issue, something like that. Uh careful planning on health care, very careful. But you're right, because if I lost my job tomorrow, I'd be on Medicare and uh she would be on the exchange. And then the same thing for my daughter, too. So that would be, and very good mention of the taxation, which could, as you said, include Roth conversions. Um, there's some other things that could be done to try to alleviate what is going to be a real change in your tax bracket when that uh when that other party goes away. This is this is a fairly big deal. By the way, it always points out to me that honestly anybody after the age of 50 should at least have a working plan. Here's what we're trying to do, here's what we're trying to accomplish, et cetera, et cetera. And and it could change. Uh my life changed dramatically since 50. I get it, but uh it does point out that planning really is a paramount when it comes to your later years.

SPEAKER_07 11:22

Absolutely. And uh if you have questions about that, well, send them our way. Just go to talkingrealmoney.com and click on the ask a question button and type them in, or click the mic in the lower right-hand corner, speak them in for the Friday QA

Safe Withdrawal Rate Questions

SPEAKER_07 11:36

podcast. But uh every day we try to take some of your questions one way or another, and most of the time, Tom likes printing them on a piece of paper and then reading them to me like he's gonna do now.

SPEAKER_06 11:49

Yeah, and this is this this is a kind of a strange, lengthy question, but we're gonna take it because we looked at the website and we kind of thought about all this. But it comes from James in Chandler, Arizona. And thank you, James, for your hard work in putting all this together. He writes, Hi, Tom and Don, thanks for all you do. I've learned a great deal from your show over the past several years. Regarding safe withdrawal rates, and I'm just gonna stop right there. Uh, because I'm gonna be very careful when we say safe. Yeah, that's a that's a tricky word because it makes it sound like, well, you're if you do it this way, you're gonna be okay. There's no guarantee into the future about the returns of stocks and bonds and how much you can take from your portfolio. So the really safe isn't, I mean, you could say one that's been successful looking back, is how I I would say looking back. But anyway, um, he writes, I'm wondering if you're familiar with the portfolio charts website. The and uh it's port portfoliocharts.com. And then you go into the uh portfolios, one of which is the golden butterfly. Um it has numerous portfolios. I know you hear that, I just me too.

SPEAKER_07 12:57

My my mind goes places it shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_06 13:00

It shouldn't, I know. Uh it has numerous portfolios compared to each other regarding 30-year safe withdrawal rates, average return standard deviation, etc. These are well-known portfolios, like the all-season portfolio from Ray Dalio. Now, Ray, I gotta say, if you're a regular listener, I'm deeply troubled reading your book. Um it's not no, it's not his book. It's a book about Ray. He is a weird guy. I mean, I know Bridgewater's done well, but do not go to work there and well, read the book first before you. I mean, maybe they're all getting rich, but you're getting off on a tangent now.

SPEAKER_07 13:33

That has nothing to do with these ports.

SPEAKER_06 13:34

I can't help it because that raid somebody had suggested it to me, and I'm reading thinking, God, I would have jumped out the window. Uh, classic 6040 from John Bogle, Core 4 portfolio from Rick Ferry, et cetera, et cetera. Larry Swedro, Bill Bernstein, et cetera. The comparison shows the portfolios with the highest safe withdrawal rates are also the portfolios with the lowest volatility. Can you provide any comments regarding these risk parity type portfolios? If these are accurate, why don't we hear more about these portfolios since everyone seems focused on withdrawal rates? What am I missing? I'm not interested in coming on the show, but appreciate any comments, dialogue you can share. So again, I uh I went and looked at some of the portfolios, which I found strange.

SPEAKER_07 14:16

I found the whole thing strange, and then I found the weird portfolio as part of the portfolios, which made it even stranger.

SPEAKER_06 14:22

Weird strange.

SPEAKER_07 14:23

I really I would have to spend a ton more time trying to figure out what the heck they're talking about because they rank them based on uh I guess on success in terms of the withdrawals, right? Well, no, it's but multiple metrics. Their compound return, their average return, okay. Things like standard deviation.

SPEAKER_06 14:46

Yeah, he mentioned that in the paper.

SPEAKER_07 14:47

They have a wacky thing called the Ulcer Index. Yeah, I've heard of that before. That's the drawdown.

SPEAKER_06 14:53

That's the amount of drawdown on the website.

SPEAKER_07 14:54

And then the deepest drawdown, the worst case scenario,

Strange Portfolio Comparisons

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uh starts.

SPEAKER_06 14:59

Okay, I gotta ask, what is the golden butterfly? Is that a particular move? Is that a I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_07 15:06

Okay, the golden butterfly is a weird portfolio. Uh it it's but it's not the weird portfolio. It's from a guy who's a uh uh mechanical engineer. Ah and he came up with this idea. I don't know where he got it.

SPEAKER_06 15:19

Okay, but listen to the weird thing.

SPEAKER_07 15:20

I think you can back test your way into these things. That's one of my biggest issues. Always I could think I think you can back test your way into something look good.

SPEAKER_06 15:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 15:31

And um because this one is large cap blend stock. How much? 20 percent.

SPEAKER_06 15:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 15:37

U.S. Oh, by the way, it's got no international. I know. None weird is right. U.S. large cap blend, U.S. small cap value. Yep. U.S. long-term treasuries, which we believe are very dangerous. Risky. U.S. short-term treasuries, which skip the intermediates.

SPEAKER_06 15:53

I know. And 20% gold. It seems to be a gold. The weird portfolio is definitely strange. 20% U.S. small cap value, when that's an asset class we would include. 20% U.S. small cap blend. Hmm, so now all of a sudden you're in 20, 40% of the portfolio is in small, 20% long-term treasuries, which take on the risk of, you know, the length of the security, 20% in REITs, and 20% in gold. Apparently, these people all have an allegiance to the um not just data mining, but mining in general. I'm sorry. Uh, I mean, this is a it's it's not just weird. It is strange. It's uh these aren't portfolios I would recommend.

SPEAKER_07 16:33

Well, and then you have the sandwich portfolio, which is pastrami. Uh oh. Sorry. There's the BLT. How much oh, how much bacon?

SPEAKER_06 16:42

What's the bacon percentage?

SPEAKER_07 16:43

Yeah, the the fried chicken. Uh these are lovely, but they they don't make you any money. Uh no, this one I don't even know why they call it the sandwich portfolio. And these people, they just do websites and create portfolios, apparently, the the people that they're they're following. I mean, this one is large cap blends, small cap blends, uh US uh international small cap blend. Oh, it's international large cap blend, emerging markets, U.S. intermediate term, treasuries. This looks a little like ours, except it doesn't it doesn't emphasize value. This is not a value emphasis portfolio. So every one of these things, and they're a little bit weird. And I don't know where the Larry I you've interviewed Larry a lot more than I have. Larry Swedro.

SPEAKER_06 17:24

What was it? What was in his?

SPEAKER_07 17:25

You said I don't even understand Larry's portfolio. I have never in my life heard Larry propose this portfolio. And what is it? Apparently he has. It is 70% intermediate term treasuries.

SPEAKER_06 17:40

70% risk averse, yeah, not much credit.

SPEAKER_07 17:44

And then 15% U.S. small cap value. Yeah, which and then 15% international with an emphasis on small cap value.

SPEAKER_06 17:52

That is a very strange.

SPEAKER_07 17:55

So my thinking is that this is well, again, it's it goes back to what I believe is our biggest problem as uh as humans investing, and we overthink everything.

SPEAKER_06 18:06

Yeah, I think the right thing here always is first deciding what your risk reward trade-offs are gonna be. Because you gotta know that, right? How much in stocks, how much in bonds. Then on the stock side, build a globally diversified portfolio. Yeah, you want to own more smaller and more value-oriented stocks, right? Then I think the best way to make sure your money's not gonna run out is the flexible withdrawal, because it turns out if you just take a percentage of the portfolio and adjusting it every year for how much is in the portfolio, it will last. Everything else, I think, is conjecture because we just don't know the returns of stocks and bonds into the future, especially 30 years. That's a very long period of time.

SPEAKER_07 18:48

And really, I would never use this site for any serious planning, but it was kind of fun. I had a good time.

SPEAKER_06 18:55

I'm gonna run right home and try the golden butterfly. I'll let you know how it goes.

SPEAKER_07 18:58

Oh, okay. Good for you. Yeah, that's your Tuesday and Thursday thing.

SPEAKER_06 19:02

God's sake. It may not last if James.

SPEAKER_07 19:05

You had to listen to the song to get that one.

Active or Rules-Based?

SPEAKER_06 19:07

If she's listening, it probably won't be. All right, uh, from Jacksonville, Florida, Ron writes us. I was recently listening to the Friday question and answer segment. That's yours, right? Oh, that's me.

SPEAKER_07 19:19

What did I do wrong?

SPEAKER_06 19:20

Uh Don mentioned he doesn't, doesn't like actively managed ETFs. Among the ETFs you recommend, AVGE is one of them. Isn't AVGE actively managed from the Avantis website?

SPEAKER_07 19:35

Says, quote, I know what he's gonna say. It's a we were not actively managed.

SPEAKER_06 19:39

The fund is an actively managed ETF that does not seek to replicate the performance of a specific index. But he says from Ron, AI says, quote, actively managed here does not necessarily mean a manager is frequently trading individual stocks based on discretionary forecasts. It means the fund manager has discretion over the underlying fund selection allocations and deviations rather than being required to track a specific index. So what is your take?

SPEAKER_07 20:07

Okay. In fact, I asked this question, not this last interview I did with him, but the previous interview I did with David Booth, who founded Dimensional Funds, which also call themselves active because they're not index. If your definition is strictly index, is following, blindly following an index, and everything else is active, then Avantis and Dimensional are by that definition alone active. However, the traditional definition of active is someone making decisions based on their particular perspective or feelings on companies based on data that they've somehow found or or uh uh created. So they're not Avantis and Dimensional don't sit they don't have people sitting around going, I think that NVIDIA is gonna be hot this next quarter. They don't do that. As a matter of fact, fac the the their their strategy is even more disciplined than than his AI search led him to believe. They don't really have discretion.

SPEAKER_06 21:22

Yeah, it says that here. It says discretion over the underlying fund selection allocations and deviations. I don't think they're not sure. They don't have discretion.

SPEAKER_07 21:28

It's ruling the same thing. They will tell you they do not have discretion. They are rules-based.

SPEAKER_06 21:34

They don't really have managers per se in the traditional sense.

SPEAKER_07 21:38

Yeah. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And if the stock fits those rules, now there is some flexibility built in. Of course. If the time you know if they're they're selling too much of something and it but it it all still boils down to rules, tax planning rules, uh uh portfolio construction rules. But they're not picking stocks. That's the difference. They're not picking stocks. They're probably not a very good thing. Their rules believe that if you tilt to certain factors, profitability, momentum, value, smalls, uh that you should slightly enhance yields and have historically.

SPEAKER_06 22:26

Right? The the stocks are.

SPEAKER_07 22:29

The SP 500 is decided by a group of people. Exactly. Dow isn't doesn't even call itself an index. It's an average of thirty stocks that are picked by people.

SPEAKER_06 22:40

By the a dollar amount of the other.

SPEAKER_07 22:41

Now there are indexes though. Most of the broad indexes, the Russell's and things like that, those are rules-based indexes.

SPEAKER_06 22:50

But somebody came up with the rules. That was not a computer.

SPEAKER_07 22:53

But they said X the biggest thousand companies is the Russell 1000.

SPEAKER_06 22:58

But it's still, you know, there was still a lot of people. So but getting just to close it, that's a decision every person has to make. You could just own the index. We happen to believe the academic work that suggests having a little bit more, you know, in the small value bobble that's not purely an index has made you more.

SPEAKER_07 23:20

However, we're not opposed to just owning the index.

SPEAKER_06 23:24

That's fine.

SPEAKER_07 23:25

We are opposed to trying to pick the best active manager. That we think is a fool's game.

SPEAKER_06 23:30

No. We got time for one more.

SPEAKER_07 23:34

Yeah, we always do. It's a podcast. I can make it however long we want.

SPEAKER_06 23:37

I thought there was a little I I was up behind you to see the tape machine going round and round. I don't know how much left on the reel there.

SPEAKER_07 23:44

It's gone. I got rid of the tape machine. That's just an illusion. That's sad. It's a figment of your imagination, Tom.

SPEAKER_06 23:49

Among others. Uh

Annuity Surrender Dilemma

SPEAKER_06 23:51

Herndon, Virginia, Robert writes, hey Don and Tom, love the show. I'm dealing with a classic advisor mess and need your take on what to do next. My mother is 81, does not need income. That doesn't need income from her investments, and her sole goal is growing her estate. Unfortunately, a commission-based advisor recently convinced her to lock a huge amount of money, over $400,000 in an annuity. Into a Prudential Flex Guard Register Index Linked Annuity, a Rila. Yeah, these things have been around for a while. To make matters worse, the same advisor previously put her brokerage funds into a high expense, into high expense commission heavy funds. The annuity is currently sitting with a $29,000 surrender charge. I guess $40,000 would be 10%. So yeah, you're looking at like 8% or percent or so. She has health issues, so we're thinking about the long-term estate and tax picture. Since non-qualified annuities don't get a step up in basis, and we want this money eventually in a low-cost Vanguard brokerage account where it can actually grow without caps or insurance fees. What is our best move? Do we bite the bullet, pay the surrendering taxes to get out now, or is there a smarter way to phase out of this thing without getting fleeced further?

SPEAKER_07 25:09

Well, you didn't say when they got into it.

SPEAKER_06 25:13

It says recently. Selling this to an 81-year-old, that should be legally illegally. I agree.

SPEAKER_07 25:26

I think that that that uh these Rylas they're like indexed annuities, that basically indexed annuities. They have caps and you know participation rates, and they're just another name for the stupid uh high commission indexed annuities, and the the guy who so the guy or gal who sold it to this person probably made between seven and ten percent commission.

SPEAKER_06 25:56

We could say eight percent on four hundred. You could do the math. That's quite a bit of money.

SPEAKER_07 26:01

Yeah. Uh okay. This is a this is this is a kind of person that really should uh have some complaints with uh with FINRA against them.

SPEAKER_06 26:12

Or go to the state of the state of which you're located because they're state insurance commissioner. I would say, by the way, if it wasn't long ago, yes, try that route. But then um in terms of the $29,000 surrender charge, um if there really wasn't much of a gain, right? So some of this comes down to what the capital gains would be as well, because if you're gonna pay $30,000 to get out of it and have a tax bill, that's problematic.

unknown 26:40

Right?

SPEAKER_07 26:41

Rather than have much of a tax bill if you just trying to get if it had been recently.

SPEAKER_06 26:46

So that comes I would want to know how much I'm gonna pay in taxes. I'd want to know where the breaks were on the surrender. In other words, if if I wait another year, is it gonna be twenty thousand, whatever the number and and that's easily uh available.

SPEAKER_07 27:00

Uh most of these, I believe, and I don't know this for a fact, but uh most of them I think have like a 30-day mandated uh free look. So it's some sort of a look period where you can get out a uh uh immediately. Uh there Wow. The surrender charges you know, they can range as high as ten percent. Now you can take out ten percent usually without paying. Annually correct. Annually. So that at least I would start doing. I would at least get my ten. Um there. I would 400,000, huh? And then this broker is doing all this other stuff. If they I would go to them and say, I think you misled my mother and I think this was an unsuitable investment.

SPEAKER_06 27:49

That might have an impact, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 27:50

I'd like to know how much you made in commission. As a matter of fact, I would go to this advisor's manager.

SPEAKER_06 27:55

The brokerage manager, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 27:56

Yeah. And and and wait and raise those issues, and then I I might consider having an attorney write a letter. Pay somebody three or four or five hundred dollars to write a strongly worded letter that says an 80 was this an appropriate sale?

SPEAKER_06 28:12

It's not appropriate.

SPEAKER_07 28:14

Right. And I I don't know that any arbitrator anywhere would say that that was an appropriate sale. I believe they would probably back this out if you pushed hard enough.

SPEAKER_06 28:25

And it may depend on how long it's been there, though, too. Right, right.

SPEAKER_07 28:28

But if it's within the first year, I think an argument I think an argument could be made that this was inappropriate for an 81-year-old. This is these products are considered longer-term investments. It is inappropriate, certainly, from a uh a an estate planning standpoint, because of that loss of a step-up cost basis. That would be horrible. Horrible advice.

SPEAKER_06 28:49

Yeah, really horrible.

SPEAKER_07 28:50

Horrible advice. Any good attorney who who practices in the estate planning realm should probably be able to do that. Or security should be able to write a really good letter that would probably scare them enough that they'd go, Do we really want to fight this over this idiot's.

SPEAKER_06 29:08

And by the way, Robert, you can quote us. When it comes to No, quote us when it comes to a Ryla, it's a pilah. You get the message, right? Oh, it was pun time.

SPEAKER_07 29:20

You know, it's been a it's been a long time since Tom's made up a new pun. It's a pilah. That was clever. Thank you. You're welcome. Uh got questions? Send them in. Go to talkingrealmoney.com. There's all kinds of ways to do it. And if you really want to get some help, you want somebody to look at that portfolio and go, why did you get into that annuity? Uh set up an appointment.

SPEAKER_06 29:43

Oh, it's that sounds kind of mean. Uh you know, when I take a call, I'm not sure. Tom does not say Tom is not as blunt as I am. No, that's true. No, you're not. You're a middle child. You gotta be.

SPEAKER_07 29:54

You are much, much, much nicer than I am.

SPEAKER_06 29:56

Well, that I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_07 29:58

Much a lot. So um anyway, go to talking for the money. No, we want to help. We want to help you. We want to help you. We do. We do. We want to help you no matter who you are. No matter what age you are, no matter what your problem is, and we're not gonna charge you, and we're not gonna try to twist your arm. Just call us. Thanks for being there. We really appreciate your presence and and you telling others that we are here almost every day.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Talking real much.

SPEAKER_05 30:39

When May Wednesday there's paperwork did.

SPEAKER_04 30:43

Two social securities, two different years.

SPEAKER_05 30:46

One waits until 71 bridges the gap, one portfolio dressed for a very long lap. Two birthdays, one budget, one planet. One future that carries you both to the end.

SPEAKER_04 31:00

So step the two of you free making money makes sense. You'll see.

SPEAKER_05 31:07

He turns Medicare eligible, she's nowhere near.

SPEAKER_04 31:11

So somebody's fine joints, my dear.

SPEAKER_05 31:14

And that pension election, you sign it just once.

SPEAKER_04 31:17

Don't have survival.

SPEAKER_05 31:19

Feel like a dunce.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

Two birthdays, one budget, one and two bends.

SPEAKER_05 31:24

One future that carries you both to the end.

SPEAKER_04 31:28

So the two of you three. Making money makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 31:32

You'll see. There's a phone and a drone from a marriage go. And it's still named just someone you don't even know.

SPEAKER_04 31:42

So you check every beneficiary line.

SPEAKER_05 31:45

Cause that dusty old paper says who's getting.

SPEAKER_04 31:49

He'll be resting his feet while I'm still on the clock. And we're laughing about it out front on the walk. But the love isn't math, and the math isn't small. So we sat down together and counted it all.

SPEAKER_05 32:02

Now his money needs come and her money needs years.

SPEAKER_04 32:06

So you own the whole market and hold through the fears.

SPEAKER_05 32:09

Tilt to small tilt a value. To profit that last.

SPEAKER_04 32:12

And ignore all the fellas who promised you fast. Too bad it's one budget and too fast.

SPEAKER_05 32:19

One future that carries you both to the end.

SPEAKER_04 32:23

So set the two of you free. Make your money. Make sense. Yo see.

SPEAKER_05 32:33

Yes, we're talking real money. Listen Monday through Friday right here on this podcast channel.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

The opinions and views expressed of this podcast were current on the date recorded. Opinions, estimates, forecasts, and statements of financial market trends that are based on current market conditions constitute our judgment and our subject to change without notice, including any forward-looking estimates or statements which are based on certain expectations and assumptions.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Although information and opinions given have been obtained from or based on sources believed to be reliable, no warranty or representation is made as to their correctness, completeness, or accuracy.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

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SPEAKER_00 33:38

See Appello Wealth's ADV Part 2A on our website for information regarding Appellate's fees and services.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Appello Capital, LLC, DBA Appello Wealth, is an investment advisory firm registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The firm only transacts business in the states where it is properly registered or excluded or exempt from registration requirements. Registration with the SEC or any State Securities Authority does not imply a certain level of skill or training. Apella does not provide tax or legal advice, and nothing either stated or implied here should be inferred as providing such advice. Thanks for listening, and please visit talkingrealmoney.com for more information and important disclosure related to performance of any specific index or fund quoted in this podcast.