The 11% Trapdoor

SPEAKER_05 1:05

Well, thanks to that very clever progressive rock band, you now know all you need to know about

Structured Note Trap

SPEAKER_05 1:13

today's topic. And today's topic, by the way, comes to us from a listener who sent in this product for our edification and perusal, which, of course, I have perused very carefully, Tom.

SPEAKER_04 1:29

And you perused and getting ready to abuse. That'll come up in just a moment. But Frank, thank you from Farmington, Connecticut, wrote us Connecticut and sent us a whole bunch of stuff on this. I love it. So he wrote to say he's a big fan of the show. Thank you for that. You and Don do a great job. And I learned so much from your show. By the way, there was somebody at a recent event where I was talking to them and they said, You and Don do a great job. I said, There's another guy on the podcast? Wait a minute. What? It was fun. I sneak in. I just paid close attention. She uh he writes, I just wanted to forward you this structured note prospectus that a financial advisor was trying to sell me on. I went to them for an initial consultation. They are not fee-only. She wanted to place me in this product for a 1.5% a year AUM charge. I personally think this is a terrible product. After reviewing it, I let her know we are not a good fit for me or any other 60-year-old person nearing retirement or in retirement. I've not heard much about this product before, so I wanted to forward to you and see if you can discuss on an upcoming show. And uh you actually looked into this specific structured note.

SPEAKER_05 2:38

I did. Okay. Let's talk. This is an example. What we have here is an example of what is called a structured note. Now, structured notes in general, they are an obligation, a debt obligation uh that is linked to something else.

SPEAKER_04 2:56

They can be linked to the bond like then.

SPEAKER_05 2:59

Bond-like. But they're linked to some other product. Uh uh uh commodities, interest rates, uh uh uh in uh real estate. Uh in this case, the one that uh we are looking at is from uh Parabbas? Yeah, BNP Parabas, which is a big bank. Uh it is called the B BMP Parabas Auto Callable Contingent Income Note. Well, right there. If do you have any clue what this is talking about?

SPEAKER_04 3:34

That's a mouthful, I'll say that, but I have no idea. No.

SPEAKER_05 3:37

Well, the the the the what they hope you hear, they just hope you hear one thing. Eleven point one five percent coop. After that, it doesn't matter, right?

SPEAKER_04 3:47

The coop just give me my 11 whatever, take that sure, find me up.

SPEAKER_05 3:52

But the uh the devil is in the details, as we say in the I do get my 11% though, right? No, you don't. Oh, okay. That's the truth. See, the devil's in the details. You do not automatically

How Structured Notes Work

SPEAKER_05 4:08

well, first let me go back and explain kind of what this is.

SPEAKER_04 4:13

It's very confusing. I got to do that.

SPEAKER_05 4:15

If you really parse its name after reading the prospectus, you would call it the auto-callable contingent income note linked to the worst of the Nasdaq 100, the Russell 2000, or the S P 500. Okay, now it's even more confusing. The income is contingent. Remember, there's the word contingent in there. I hate that. That means it's based on something else. Okay?

unknown 4:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:41

Another problem. Auto-callable. That means that it can be automatically terminated whenever they want to.

SPEAKER_04 4:47

So if interest rates go the wrong way, something changes, they say we're not going to pay you or that, shh, it's gone, it's over. Here's your bank.

SPEAKER_05 4:53

And the result is not determined by the average of the three indexes it follows, which are the NASDAQ 100, the Russell 2000, and the SP 500. It's the worst of. No, sorry, Bob. Yeah. Yeah. It's determined by whichever one performs the worst.

SPEAKER_04 5:09

That just wow, there's a great pitch there somewhere, but not there.

SPEAKER_05 5:13

It's just a bundle of derivative securities issued in a derivative security by an unregistered investment company, a bank, in other words. So um so here's how it works. Okay? Each month, they look at those three indexes. Each month, each month, they take their monthly coupon, that 11.15 coupon, and they pay it only if every index closes at or above 70% of its starting level. So if all three are up, but or all three aren't down more than 30%, which seems unlikely, then you get your coupon. However, if even one index is below that 70% of its starting point, you get nothing across the board, period. The missed coupon is not deferred. You don't get it later.

SPEAKER_04 6:14

So it's okay, so but just to go back, the bank is taking your money and is it in it's investing it in something that's going to produce something.

SPEAKER_05 6:25

It's investing it in 11, but we don't really know what it is. Maybe more, maybe less. Because bear in mind, if you put in $100,000, I'll just give you an example. And at maturity, the index, the worst index of the three falls more than 40%. If it falls just 40%, you get your money back. Yeah. If it falls 41%, you don't you suffer the entire loss. The whole 41%.

SPEAKER_04 7:02

The value of your investment. Uh-huh. Yeah, okay. That's what you're doing.

SPEAKER_05 7:06

So your $100,000 that you put in initially, if the market at by the time this five-year note matures, or it's called, and the market has declined 40% or less, you get all your money back. Plus those coupons that are weird along the way that could be higher, could be lower. If the market falls 41% or more, you suffer the entire loss of just that one worst. And by the way, the NASDAQ 100 is a very volatile index. So's the uh so is the Russell 2000. These are very volatile indexes.

SPEAKER_04 7:41

Okay, so you have a f five-year lockup. So I'm giving you the money for five years.

SPEAKER_05 7:47

You got a five-year lockup unless they change their mind.

SPEAKER_04 7:51

Right. Something happens along the way. So And it's all based on their credit, right? I mean, on them being able to pay you back.

SPEAKER_05 8:00

Yes, because there really is no security behind the security except for the full faith and credit of the

Hidden Risks and Fees

SPEAKER_05 8:07

the bank.

SPEAKER_04 8:08

So you get the worst of, you got a lock up.

SPEAKER_05 8:11

You don't get FDIC insurance or anything like that. It's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_04 8:14

And it's their credit risk.

unknown 8:16

Right.

SPEAKER_04 8:16

Then where's this? On top of that, advisor how much is how much advisor costs me?

SPEAKER_05 8:20

The advisor is going to charge one and a half percent a year, this advisor. So getting you into this. Right. Now you're down to nine plus percent in the best case scenarios, and far less than that in the worst case, or even a 40 or 41 to 100% loss. Not 100%, but does this sound like the kind of product anybody wants? Anyone knows.

SPEAKER_04 8:48

There must be some there's some downside protection here, right?

SPEAKER_05 8:51

Right, to 40 percent of the worst index. So if we have uh if we had a 2008 in this portfolio and the SP fell by more than 40 percent.

SPEAKER_04 9:05

Spring 2020.

SPEAKER_05 9:07

Well, it didn't fall more than 40.

SPEAKER_04 9:10

No, okay, that was 30 something percent. Right.

SPEAKER_05 9:12

Didn't hit the didn't hit the threshold. Okay. But if you're below the 40, yeah, your your investment is going to decline by whatever the SP 500 did, or if the NASDAQ 100 did worse, buy that. Or if the Russell 2000 did worse, buy that. So you don't have real downside protection. I mean, and how is that? This is really made for sophisticated, crazy investors. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:38

I mean, how how much of this sort of thing is done? Because it comes up fairly infrequently. When I got the note from Frank, I think it had been a number of years since I'd even heard of anybody in or anybody pitched for a structured note like this. It it it had been a while, so it was kind of like, uh, I've got to scratch that off to figure out what what what they're trying to do here.

SPEAKER_05 10:03

Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of money in structured notes, is it? Okay. I I don't you know that's a good question. I'm gonna do that. That's okay.

SPEAKER_04 10:11

It's just okay, but going back to the beginning, you know we like simplicity, we like transparency, and we like liquidity. This has none of those things.

SPEAKER_05 10:22

None of those things, yeah. None of those features. Uh this particular issue is thirty-four million dollars.

SPEAKER_04 10:28

Okay, so that that's in the grand scheme of things, that's pretty small.

SPEAKER_05 10:31

That's pretty small. But it was being sold to somebody. And by the way, the person selling it gets a half a percent commission.

SPEAKER_04 10:40

That's all.

SPEAKER_05 10:41

Not a big commission. Half a percent commission.

SPEAKER_04 10:42

So again, in the big picture, that's tiny. So, okay, but Frank, you're a wise man because Frank said he already decided he wasn't gonna do it anyway, but he just wanted to send he sent us the whole prospectus, which is really nice of him.

SPEAKER_05 10:55

Yeah, and that was I gotta tell you, that was very helpful because I was able to really spend some time digging into the and this is the problem with prospectuses. They know, they know you are not gonna read the darn thing. I did.

SPEAKER_04 11:13

I did because I had time one night to sit down and go through it. And at the end of it, I was always I was like ponderous homes. Are they I did I was exhausted, and I was frankly, I was just kind of more confused than when I started before I read it. And um, I don't like investing in things that I have absolutely 100% no faith or trust or really great knowledge of the right.

SPEAKER_05 11:36

I was gonna say, really, the issue it should start with understanding. This is one of the rules of financial physics. If if you don't understand it, there's probably a problem. And by the way, oh, the structured note

Wall Street Complexity

SPEAKER_05 11:50

market, I don't have the 2026 numbers because we're in 2026, but in 2025, the number of structured notes issued was about 54,000 individual ones with a total value of about 180 billion dollars. Okay, we're we're talking real money now.

SPEAKER_04 12:08

Now we're talking real money.

SPEAKER_05 12:15

It's a product in search of uh your money. Yeah. It's a a means by which to baffle you with BS and separate you from your big bucks. And that is that's Wall Street's MO. That's the way they operate. That's how they make themselves valuable. I I uh you know yesterday on the on the program, I asked David Booth about complexity. And and you know, it's one of it's one of the ways that active management maintains its market share when all evidence points to it not working. And if you didn't get a chance to listen to yesterday's show, there is some there's some enlightening stuff from uh the guy who started DFA.

SPEAKER_04 13:00

Been around for a while and worked with some pretty highfalutin academics. So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:05

Plus the show music was was particularly good.

SPEAKER_04 13:08

Second to none. Second to none. Grammy nominated uh for sure.

SPEAKER_05 13:11

So yeah. Oh, speaking of which, and I don't know if it's gonna be up yet. Um it's in the process, but I have created I've created my first album of money music because I discovered it was a niche that is unexploited on popular music streaming services. It's almost impossible to find good money music. I mean, there I found one that was death metal, which is a guy going, money, money, and I'm going, I don't know what he said. Money. Um so I I have I have created from from my music a an album of eight Diddies, all by the same band, the band that I call The Financial Physicist with an F. And the name of the album is Let the Boring Money In. Let the Boring Money.

SPEAKER_04 14:03

And is this is this a sing along? Can you sing along with us? Can we do this?

SPEAKER_05 14:07

If everything works the way it's supposed to, it's supposed to on Apple you get the the lyrics that scroll with the with the song. So you can sing along if you can hit some of those notes. Uh and um it it should be on all the major streaming services except Pandora and one other.

SPEAKER_04 14:28

And for those of you who want a more simpler, if you go to talkingrealmoney.com and click on music. I know, but you can listen and they play it plays back to back because I did it yesterday for the boss.

SPEAKER_05 14:38

I just is actually long form versions of don't miss that. Yeah. These are four and five minute songs.

SPEAKER_04 14:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 14:47

Okay. I mean we've got I I think one of the big hits is gonna be that stakes that stake's not free. That stake's not free. That stake was never free. Uh so check that out on your favorite streaming service. And you know what? I might make, get this. I think I make one tenth of one cent per stream. So if you stream the whole album, I will almost make a penny. That's how good the royalties are on this thing. Uh it is, of course. Uh I put it all together, the lyrics, the styles, and that kind of thing, but it is AI generated. Okay? So let's just, I'm gonna be right up front with you. I do not have that kind of musical

Listener Q&A Begins

SPEAKER_05 15:34

ability. I know it sounds good, but I couldn't play it. So let's move along to our uh next popular portion of the program, which is the QA section. And sometimes we lead off our QA. These are the questions that you send in on the ask a question form at talkingrealmoney.com. Sometimes we actually get you on the horn. That's a good way of saying it because it's really not a phone. We're just gonna call it the horn now. Uh, we get you on the horn, and uh Tom spends a little time answering your question.

SPEAKER_04 16:07

Let's go to the phones where we find Joe. How are you today? Tom, I'm great. How are you? I'm doing great. Great to have you on the program. Really appreciate the support and listening and all that kind of good stuff. And how can we help you today?

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Well, let me give you a little background. Yeah. Uh I'm turning 65 this year. Uh probably have a couple more years to retirement. Yep. Uh my wife is uh a little bit younger than me. She's uh 19 years, so she's got a little bit longer runway than I have. Sure, 19 years younger. And I've yeah, and I've always uh done my uh man investments uh pretty much self-managed. Yeah. And I'm starting to start some initial planning into how I would like to do the I guess the income generation portion uh of my finances once I stop working. And since I've always done it kind of independently, I'd like to at least start uh by doing some initial research on what it might look like. And so I know there's a couple of tools out there. I know y'all have mentioned some on the air before, and I think one was projection labs.

SPEAKER_04 17:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

I know I know there's a couple others out there, but just wanted to get your thoughts on someone who likes to do things themselves.

Planning for Retirement

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Yeah, no, I get it. Yeah. Tools are available.

SPEAKER_04 17:19

You know, I do like projection labs. I probably like Bolden 2 B-O-L-D-I-N for do-it-yourselfers. I don't remember what they're in fact, I could go look. I don't remember what the cost is for that. I think it's relatively inexpensive. My only caution to you would be the fact that there's a fairly large age difference, I'm sure you know this, um, between you and your wife, which may require some fairly unique type of planning. Um I'm just looking at Bolden here, pricing. Um Yeah, I mean you can get Planner Plus for, you know, $144 a year, whatever. That's pretty cheap. Um, which probably give you the basics. But the fact that that she is going to likely outlive you by a substantial period of time, I'm not sure the planning software would do a good job of, you know, taking that into consideration. Um, so I'm here's what I might do. I might do the, you know, the one of those online versions, et cetera, and then at least pay somebody to give it an overview, a professional, to look at it and say, hey, you know, this doesn't take into effect that doesn't take into account this, this, and this. And um, you know, you really should be thinking about this issue because your wife's basically 20 years younger, et cetera. So those things might come up. But I'd say either of those two, you know, planning tools are very good for for do-it-yourselfers, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

All right, yeah, that's I mean, that's very helpful. I mean, I'm just looking at doing some initial basic plan. Yeah. Like I said, I'm not I've got a couple more years out of of runway for my job and just want to kind of understand where I'm at so when I do make the decision to pull the trigger uh and I can get some additional help, uh, kind of know what I'm where I'm starting from.

SPEAKER_04 19:07

Yeah, no, I mean have you done anything to make sure I'm yeah. Have you done anything like the back of the envelope at all? Sort of just like here, you know, I take social.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

I mean sort of just general planning. Yeah, I mean I you know, obviously create a spreadsheet and look at uh where my money's at and you know, looking at a five percent rule potentially. Okay. Uh and then adding on Social Security, understanding where what my annual income could be. Uh the obviously before taxes. Yep. Uh but at the same time uh won't be contributing to my 401k anymore at that point. Uh so hopefully my my current salary would I could be fully replaced by investment income.

SPEAKER_04 19:49

And is your if I could ask, is your wife going to continue working to supply income?

SPEAKER_01 19:55

She is currently not working, okay. Uh but she's actually going back to school for a master's degree. Okay. Uh and would like to uh at some point go back to work for a little bit. Okay, so there could be a change there. Yeah. Which I think the thought of me be being retired and home all day kind of scares her.

SPEAKER_04 20:13

Yeah, my wife basically told me no way, never gonna happen. So I believe and I mean I'm older than you. Uh yeah, you think you're hanging around here all day? No, that's not we're not gonna do that. So um um, but then and all kidding aside, that's something to think about. But yeah, I'd probably I'd probably use one of those two. Uh I'd start with the back of the envelope. Sounds like you've already done that. I'd use one of those two, and then probably after I ran all those numbers, I might call fee-only fiduciary planning outfit. They'll sell you a cheap plan, you know, and not say cheap, but inexpensive compared to managing the money, because you're gonna manage the money on your own. Get that second opinion because again, you're it's not just that you're working to retirement, it's that you have this this age gap that really really creates some other some other fairly unique issues, I'll put it that way.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

That sounds like a good idea, a good plan.

SPEAKER_04 21:01

Well, listen, I I'm glad we're able to provide that. We wish you nothing but the best. And hey, thank you very much for being part of the program. Thank you very much. Take care, Jill.

SPEAKER_05 21:09

But for most of the ones you write in, most of them, Tom really gets a kick out of reading them. Now, I could have AI read them and put him out of work, but we like having him around, so we'll keep him to read this and a few other questions.

SPEAKER_04 21:26

So funny because I I I just briefly mentioned that the boss was just in town, and he was talking about AI to the staff, and he said some companies are looking at AI as a way to reduce staff, and we're not we're not taking that tact. We're gonna we're gonna add people.

SPEAKER_05 21:39

Trevor Burrus, Jr. Except on talking real money. We're we're we're looking at all options. I did not mention that's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_04 21:45

My mind immediately went to wait a minute, I'm done. Anyway. So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:50

That's where I like being the one who's in charge of the AI. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 21:53

Exactly. Well, that's smart.

Japan and Treasury Risk

SPEAKER_04 21:55

You guys don't know where the key is. Uh Robert from South Prairie, Washington. Washington writes Japan holds a very large investment in U.S. treasuries, plus or minus 1 trillion. If the yen fails and they sell their share of U.S. treasuries for less than they are worth, how does this affect the U.S. dollar? Our investments, including the U.S. bonds we have as our investments. And we do have a lot of the most held The United States of America citizens of the country hold more U.S. treasuries than anybody else.

SPEAKER_05 22:29

Yeah, we own most of our debt. We own the largest percentage of our debt. Exactly. Although Japan owns about a trillion of the 40 trillion in debt that we have. Trevor Burrus, Jr. So 140. But the reality is Japan is not, they don't have a death wish. And it would sell all their treasuries would well, they would one, they'd have to sell them at fire sale prices to sell a trillion dollars on all at once. The yen would just explode in value, and that would hurt Japanese importers and practically destroy its economy because it's a very important thing. Because you couldn't afford you couldn't afford a Toyota anymore, Tom. Yeah. You couldn't afford it. And then and then here's the and this is why we we've had maybe the biggest problem we have is our big emotional brains. And again, this was something David Booth and I talked about is our emotional brains. We're thinking too much about worst-case scenarios. Okay. Where are they going to put $1.1 trillion after they're not going to be able to do that? They wanted earning money somewhere. Where are they going to put it?

SPEAKER_04 23:41

99-year Argentinian bond is where I think. It doesn't have the liquidity. But it paying like 19% or something. Okay, but but how I want to find out. I I don't think they have any more of those. They did at one time, but um I think they're all been called I could be wrong, but so but don't buy those folks. That that that's meant as a a mild joke.

SPEAKER_05 24:06

And uh Yeah, I mean in essence, Japan would would literally shoot themselves in the foot.

SPEAKER_04 24:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:12

So uh it's not a good idea. It's not gonna happen. It would damage by the way, there's the political stakes. What would it do to the U.S.-Japanese alliance, which is to Japan, critically important with China for many reasons, yeah. Right across the Sea of China from them. They don't want they do not, they've done this with China. They they they went up against a pre-industrial China once. Remember?

SPEAKER_04 24:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:40

Remember? And they got stuck.

SPEAKER_04 24:41

Um by the way, can we can we say it would be the worst decision for Japan since Pearl Harbor? Would that be okay?

SPEAKER_05 24:47

Actually, I think you can literally say that. So yeah, if you wanted to like take your $1.1 trillion and put it in Argentina, it's still going to be $800 billion short. They only have $240 billion in total debt. Nobody else has enough debt. Yeah. And has the liquidity to support that debt. Right.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

The liquidity to pay back, yeah. Okay, good. So I think it's something you don't need to worry about in the big picture.

Listener Praise and Song

SPEAKER_05 25:19

Big brains, big thinking.

SPEAKER_04 25:20

Other things. Okay, now this one you gotta listen carefully to, okay? Comes from uh Savannah, Georgia. Jennifer. Love Savannah. Beautiful city. Very carefully. Well, nothing says sound financial advice like a jingle that makes me want to invest my entire 401k in a pub. Talking real money, apparently now broadcasting live from a pub in County Cork. I came here for financial advice, and 12 seconds in, I'm already craving a Guinness. That intro just turned compound interest into an Irish drinking song. Finally! A financial podcast where my portfolio and my pint can both be half full. I don't know if we're talking real money or looking for a pot of gold, but I'm in. Hey, thank you. That's just great.

SPEAKER_05 26:06

There's no question there. And let me tell you, that was very sweet. Thank you. That's nice. Um, and just because I appreciate it so much. Yeah. Here's an encore of that song.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

Come hark, gentle folk, and pray tell what ye seek. Shall I sell all my shares if the market grows a week? Doth an annuity serve me? Is gold worth the price? Should I trust yonder broker who peddles advice? May bring your questions each Friday, and here all is done with the answers here. Baking for dear. No riddles and no ruses, no fee. Just write a QA with Don. I'm talking real money.

SPEAKER_05 26:52

I love her voice. Beautiful. The the AI, the AI and I originally did that as a uh as a uh uh a sixteenth century uh troubadour kind of thing. It sounds it, yeah. Yeah. But I guess that's what kind of you know Celtic music sounds like. So yeah, thank you for that. And there's the song for you, just for you. So you could have a uh uh a talking real money Guinness.

SPEAKER_04 27:19

And by the way, I tried that. Uh after about three or four beers, the music even sounds better. I'm just gonna put that up. Of course it does.

Mega Backdoor Roth Rules

SPEAKER_04 27:28

It's made for that. That's really stuck. You got any more questions? I got one more. All right, one more. And it comes from uh Virginia Beach, Virginia, James. This is kind of confusing. But um, he writes, I own a small medical office, seven employees, plus me, the only owner. We currently use guidelines for our 401k. That must be the um the provider, and have a profit sharing component. Guideline got bought out by Gusto, just because that's good branding. Um, and the writing is on the wall. Fees are going up, customer service getting worse, et cetera. I'm looking to switch to Employee Fiduciary 401k. It's not a good one. That's the name of the company, I assume. And they have great investment options as well as the options for profit share and after-tax contribution. Since I'm already maxing out my full $72,000 contribution with traditional measures plus the profit sharing, I believe there is no more room for mega backdoor Roth. So having it in the plan has no benefit unless I decrease the overall profit share contributions to allow some room for after-tax. But even then, I don't think there's much benefit, right?

unknown 28:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 28:30

It's confusing. So because that's the same thing. Let's go back.

SPEAKER_05 28:32

You have a $72,000.

SPEAKER_04 28:36

That would include the mega backdoor Roth.

SPEAKER_05 28:38

Well, hold on. You got to do that.

SPEAKER_04 28:39

Because you can't put $72 in a traditional.

SPEAKER_05 28:42

Yeah, you can. You can. That's eligible catch up, that's employee contributions, that's employer match and profit sharing. And profit sharing. Okay. Then you could do the mega. The backdoor Roth is not impacted by that 72.

SPEAKER_04 28:58

Ah, okay, great.

SPEAKER_05 28:59

The backdoor Roth, you can contribute at 50 plus 8,600 to a traditional IRA still, then convert it to a Roth.

SPEAKER_04 29:09

But what about so but the mega backdoor Roth is inside the employer plan?

SPEAKER_05 29:13

Yeah, you can't do the mega, but you could still do a backdoor.

SPEAKER_04 29:16

Okay. All right. So you can't okay, that's the part I was wondering.

SPEAKER_05 29:19

So he could take himself up to $80,000 if he wanted to.

SPEAKER_04 29:24

I think you're overthinking this.

SPEAKER_05 29:26

You think people overthink? I think one thing we have determined is that people overthink. I'm looking at myself and thinking no. But um we would actually probably be a lot happier if we stopped spinning scenarios in our true.

SPEAKER_04 29:43

That's very true. You know, what you want really in the plan, though, is good options, which wide diversification, low cost. I mean, at the end of the day, yeah, if you can add on all that other stuff, it's great. But and by the way, how many people are putting $72,000 a year into their point? Not very many. It's a very small thing. I do what Don just said. I do the up to the 72 and then do the back door. Another 86. You don't have profit sharing. What's that? I think 72 that doesn't include the profit share.

SPEAKER_05 30:18

Yeah, it includes, but we don't have profit sharing at Owa.

SPEAKER_04 30:21

No, no, no. But we do have the mega backdoor Roth, I'm told.

SPEAKER_05 30:23

Oh, the mega backdoor Roth. Okay. I'm sorry.

Closing Remarks and Travel

SPEAKER_05 30:26

Yeah. All right. Anyway, there you go. That's the questions for today. Send yours in at talkingrealmoney.com using the ask a question form if you like topping topping, uh, typing them to Tom and killing trees. If you, on the other hand, prefer uh using your voice, it takes less time. It's not as hard unless you're an incredible typist, which most of us aren't. Just speak your question using the mic button in the corner of the screen. Then those go on the Friday podcast. And uh then it's just me. You have to live with just me, though. Then let's see. The other thing you can do, and this is where Tom comes in or others, you can actually schedule an appointment to sit down with Tom or others at a time.

SPEAKER_04 31:07

I got a couple of calls this week, so keep them coming. I love it.

SPEAKER_05 31:09

So I mean, literally sit down, have your portfolio gone over, kind of figure out where you are and where you might be.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

Underselling it so that it seems better. Okay, fair enough. Over deliver, undersell. That's good. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_05 31:26

I know. Uh whatever. Yeah, overdeliver, undersell. I'm underselling so you can over-deliver.

SPEAKER_04 31:32

Which would be a change in my normal. Which would be nice.

SPEAKER_05 31:35

You know, well, the problem with Tom is that he wears himself out on vacation and he comes back from vacation and he goes, I need to take naps.

SPEAKER_04 31:43

So stay and work.

SPEAKER_05 31:46

You're less tired when you work.

SPEAKER_04 31:48

Exactly. That's fair. That's fair.

SPEAKER_05 31:50

You don't work as hard on work as you work on vacation, apparently.

SPEAKER_04 31:53

You're gonna hate the fact that we've already scheduled the I know.

SPEAKER_05 31:56

You schedule the winter trip to Hawaii. Uh I have got to get to Alani. I am a Disney vacation trip.

SPEAKER_04 32:03

And we're staying at the place right next door again.

SPEAKER_05 32:05

I'm Alani. It's a great spot. I I've been dying to see I've never in my life been to Hawaii. I know. You need to be there. I had the best accommodation set up in I can't remember what year it was. That was a long time.

SPEAKER_04 32:21

You were all set to go, right? And then something happened.

SPEAKER_05 32:24

The dog got hit by a train.

SPEAKER_04 32:26

Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_05 32:26

Yeah, that's right. No, that was sad. Yeah. Literally, the dog got hit by a Santa Fe Railroad locomotive.

SPEAKER_04 32:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:34

And lived.

SPEAKER_04 32:35

Yeah, I know. For several years after. Who lived getting hit by that? Yeah, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 32:38

Several years after, but but uh he was the bionic dog after that. Debbie spent like over a month with the dog at a uh surgery center in Colorado. The surgery center, by the way, of the guy who who started that first vet show on Animal Planet.

SPEAKER_04 32:55

Oh, and speaking of things set aside, um, they were asking last night, the boss was, what happened to the silver bullet? Where is that?

SPEAKER_05 33:03

Silver bullet is sitting in Asheville. It was gonna go on a trip. It was gonna go on a trip this summer. Oh, okay. But my mom died.

SPEAKER_04 33:11

Oh, all right. Okay. So next summer?

SPEAKER_05 33:13

Next summer.

SPEAKER_04 33:14

You're coming out, you're gonna bring it by, gonna drop it off at the lake, and that'll be that.

SPEAKER_05 33:18

If you can find somebody to buy it, I will drive it out there. Oh, I can find somebody to buy it. How much I will drive it out there. I want at least $50, I want $55k for it. It's been I spent more than that. It's a beautiful oh, it's beautiful. Plus, you can say Don McDonald slept. And a brand new airstream costs you $125,000, $150,000. It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 33:39

So but do you really need to drag it across the country to sell it? Can't you just sell it there?

SPEAKER_05 33:43

I think people have more money in Seattle than they do here. You got a lot of those tech millionaires. Plus, you know, you remember Gray's Anatomy. Yeah, of course. I mean, people out there live in airstreams, apparently, like on the TV show. Okay, Dreamy. Remember Kim? Exactly. Anyway, thank you all for being a part of our program. We really truly appreciate you, and we hope you will continue to join us as We're talking real money.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

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