Ep. 1999: IRA Mistakes You Can’t Undo

SPEAKER_04 0:10

And the planet hits the street. You can lose your journal chasing what you're never gonna be. So we put it over it. And we put most nothing down and we let it roll, boys. Let it roll. Make them on the mix. Make them on the mixes. Talking real money.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

It's a little Dixieland money talk. Money advice. You notice the advice in all the jingles

Money Talk Intro

SPEAKER_01 0:46

is actually pretty sound. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Well, it's all very sound. I wonder where it came from. How?

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Oh, yeah, that'd be me. Uh hi, welcome to Talking Real Money. I'm me, Don. That's him, Tom. And once again, he's in the Model Military Aircraft Museum. Duval, Washington famous tourist attraction.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Yeah, please. Somebody did actually ask me if they could come by and see. Come by the museum.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

You can't come by. So I'm sorry. You wouldn't let them come by and see.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

Because it's sad. It would be pathetic for them.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

It used to be better.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

It was because it had more room for more planes. I have about 30 here now. I had 50 plus before. So no.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Then it really was a museum. Oh wow, really impressive. Those little plastic

Avoid Costly IRA Mistakes

SPEAKER_01 1:28

things. All right. Today we're going to talk about getting it right. Yeah. Doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

Great lead-in because the music talked about sort of messing around with the market. It turns out there's a lot of other mistakes you can make other than the actual management of your money, the sort of the procedural part that people forget about, sadly. Because it can be expensive. Yeah. Yeah. So you want me to mention them?

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Is that what you want? No, I don't care who mentions them. Uh this this is uh it's from the WSJ. Yeah. One of one of our great sources of of ideas to talk about.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Um, and there are legion more in addition to these four that they mentioned. I'm gonna mention a few more. There's many more. There are more. I've seen them. Um but the these are mistakes that can they call generally un they can't be generally undone. Uh, and that's bad because when you make a money mistake that you can't fix, that's upsetting. So, number one, they say taking a non-spouse beneficiary rollover.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Okay, now let me just preface all of this by saying this stuff is going to initially confuse you until we struggle to find a way to come to explain stupid IRS rules when it comes to this stuff. It could be simpler, but who writes the rules? Well, not us. That would be the U.S. Congress, I believe. Actually, they kind of hand it off to the IRS. Yeah, and they say, fill in the blank. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

A non-spouse, so that means like non-wife or husband, right? That's one.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Right. Somebody you're not married to.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

Yeah. Okay. Beneficiary, that's the same.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

So that could be somebody you live with and you're not common law, right? Good point. Yes, that could be. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:15

Beneficiary means you're the recipient of something. Could be good, could be bad.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Um it means somebody named you on the account as the beneficiary.

SPEAKER_03 3:24

Rollover is, I think what I did last night in bed was my back hurt so much today. So Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

That's not true. Yeah, no, that's probably it.

SPEAKER_03 3:33

No, a rollover in this case refers to money, money moving from one place to another. What they're talking about is the uh the if a surviving spouse, okay, my wife, for example, as I expect, and it's as you pointed out painfully recently in a podcast, because she'll outlive me, she will be able to inherit my 401k or IRA, and she can move it right into hers. Yeah, correct?

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Yes, that is correct, sir. Yep. Um because she's a spouse.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

That's a spouse. Surviving spouse who's a beneficiary of an hour.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

That's why she married you. So she could be the spouse and get your stuff.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

You've mentioned that many many times. This is not an option for that exact way. Close. Uh, this is not an option for non-spouse beneficiaries.

unknown 4:21

No.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

Non-spouse beneficiaries to move inherited assets while preserving their tax treatment. They must move the money directly from one custodian to another in a direct transfer. They can't move it right into their account. It has to be an inherited IRA that is far different than a spousal inherited IRA. That you can move right into your account. Why they make it this way, we do not know. We don't, we don't get to we don't get to make that decision. It's way bigger than us. That's one.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

That's one.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

That's um, this is one you forget about. I I only saw it once. Exceeding the one rollover a year rule. IRA owners are limited to one direct, or pardon me, one indirect, one indirect IRA to IRA rollover in any 12-month period. I think this is really dumb, but it's true. I saw it once.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

It is dumb and it is true. And there is really no logical reason that I can come up with for it. It's just one of those things that if you have a couple of IRAs and you do them both in the same calendar year, is that right?

SPEAKER_03 5:22

No, 12 month period, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

12-month period, that's right, not calendar year.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

So you do one in March, you can't do another one until basically April of the following year. Of the following year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:34

It's really silly. I I don't know. I again, I don't dumb, but but it's a rule, and uh you don't want to mess with

The 72T Trap

SPEAKER_03 5:42

it. Number three, um, altering a 72T plan.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Yeah, we we 72T.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

We don't talk enough about the old 72 plan.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

We do not talk about 72T. 72Ts are a way to get money out of your IRA without a 10% early withdrawal penalty prior to you turning 59 and a half. If you turn 59 and a half, you can take anything out of your IRA that you want, just pay the taxes. You don't have to pay a 10% penalty.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Whatever your income tax rate is, that's what you're gonna have.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

However, for those fire folks who want to retire early, you can take it before 59 and a half. But you have to use rule 72T. That's why it's called a 72T.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

Don't forget 73T. We'll get to that in a moment.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Yeah, I don't even know what that means.

SPEAKER_03 6:27

I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

There isn't one, probably. But the 72T rule states that you can avoid the penalty if you set up your distributions in what are called substantially equal periodic payments. And here's where you're gonna get caught. Those periodic payments must be in effect for at least five years or 59 and a half, whichever is longer. So if you start taking them out in substantially equal payments at age 50, well, it's nine and a half years that you have to keep taking those equal periodic payments.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

Now change, you said it exactly right. Any change, this is where it gets kind of ugly, can trigger a 10% penalty that is retroactive to all distributions before age 59. That's a lot of money. 10% right?

SPEAKER_01 7:18

I mean any change. And that means if you add more to that IRA, if you put more money in that IRA after you've started the distributions, that's a change that invokes the 10% penalty, retroactive to when you started taking the money.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

I never heard of this one being a problem, but boy, that's messy.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Oh, it could catch you for some of the fire folks. You got to be really careful. Big time.

SPEAKER_03 7:39

Um, here's one. I okay, I'm hoping you will explain this to all of us, including myself.

Same-Property Rollover Rules

SPEAKER_03 7:44

It's it's number four, violating the same property rollover rule.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Okay, the key word in that sentence is rollover. See, here's the problem. We get confused with terminology. And I it would, we we would, it would be so much easier if we would stop using the term rollover, period, at all. We should stop saying rollover. Transfer your IRA, a direct transfer of your IRA from custodian to custodian, a direct transfer of your 401k from custodian to custodian. Rollovers typically used to be rolling it over meant taking the distribution in cash or securities and then putting it back within 60 days.

SPEAKER_03 8:29

So you could actually take possession of it and as long as it got back into that account in 60 days.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Exactly. And that's where this same property rule comes into effect. Now, this is not a very common one. I'm not even sure why the Wall Street Journal pulled this one out of its hat. But since we have it here, we might as well explain what the heck it means. If you take, for example, you say, Oh, I want uh some stock that's paying a dividend out of my IRA for but I'm gonna put it back. You take it out, you can collect the dividends during that 60-day period. You can trade it, you can buy and sell and but you must deposit a hundred of the stocks, exact same stock shares back into the receiving IRA.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

That just seems weird. I I don't understand. Who cares? If it's the money, the money. What what difference does it make when it's in?

SPEAKER_01 9:25

It doesn't, it does to the IRS. For example, let's say for some reason you bring Apple out, you sell them, you use the money for something else, and then you redeposit the cash back in. That's bad. That's the same thing. Now I'm not sure what happens if you do that. 10% penalty. Uh if you if you uh deposit a different stock. Like for instead of Apple, you deposit Microsoft, same value, back into the account. Nope. 10% penalty. If they if if you get the cash out, you have to put cash back in. Can't put stock back in. But if you distribute securities or other property, the same securities or property must go back into the IRA. This is a very weird rule, and that's why I don't think plus rollovers are easy to mess up. If you take the money out and you're 61 days after you took it out when you put it back in, too late, it's an early distribution, taxes, penalty, you're in trouble.

SPEAKER_03 10:31

I don't in today's world where everything can be done electronically, I have no idea why. If you are going to change custodians or something, you don't just move it directly.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Because people liked using the float and the money basically for free for 60 days.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Sitting around to do something else. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Fair enough. Um, but don't just do a transfer.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

Yeah, most of those are fairly obscure. Here are the ones I see as the biggest mistakes. And I I did

Fix Beneficiaries and Charities

SPEAKER_03 10:58

The Wall Street Journal did not cover these. No. Um, number one is I've seen it, and by the way, it it existed in one of my accounts for a long time until I caught it. Making sure your beneficiaries are correct. I had my ex-wife on my IRA for many years. One day I was like, Did I ever change that? No, I had never changed it.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Oh, I looked at one of Debbie's statements and it had her brother on it. I went no. Oh, she goes, I must have done that 35 years ago.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

Or when I was mad at you one day or something. I don't know. Um, yeah, that's a good one. It's huge, huge. Here's another one. I see people taking money out of their IRAs and then saying, Oh, I'm gonna give it to the dog lovers of America. Okay, no, that would be a QCD. You move the money directly from the IRA and give it to the dogs because there you're reducing your tax bill. Right. Don't leave it to them. What do you're doing?

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Make it part of your quality, your your RMDs. Yep, takes the place of your RMD and saves you paying taxes.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

Ah, thank you. So if you're gonna, and by the way, if you're gonna be charitable and you have money in a pre-tax account like that, an IRA, I think it's the only way to go.

Watch RMD Penalties

SPEAKER_03 12:08

It makes total sense. And that you mentioned RMDs. I see a lot of mistakes around IMDs. A couple of things to pay attention to here. Number one, if you're born in 1960 or earlier, you have until, and this I thought about this the other day. You have until the age of 73 to start taking the money out. That's no offense, kind of old. Um, that if you're born after 1960, excuse me, you have you have until the age of 75. But don't forget, I've I've met many people who just didn't know they had to do that. Didn't know that you at some point you have to take the money out and start paying taxes running. Many, many. It is remember that 10% thing Don just mentioned? Yeah, they they're gonna they're gonna hit you over the side of the.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Oh no, no, it's worse. It's worse on RMDs. 20%? 25. Yeah. So it's the standard penalty is $25,000. If you correct it $25,000 or $25,000. I mean 25%, I should say. See, it's late in the day. Yeah. Uh if you correct it within what they call their correction window, which is by the end of the next year following the tax year where you failed to take it out, it's only 10%.

SPEAKER_03 13:17

Yeah, we had this happen to a very large IRA holder a decade ago. We wrote them a letter, the IRS, etc. They did they did wipe out the penalties. They said, okay, yeah, okay. But don't forget,

Rebalance Your Allocation

SPEAKER_03 13:30

uh, I mean, it could be absolutely huge. And along those lines, by the way, the other one I see with IRAs that are biggest mistakes, you already know this. Uh people have the wrong, and this is not the procedural, but the account itself have the wrong asset allocation.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Oh, well, that's they don't pay. It's not just our IRAs, that's 401ks.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

I just ran into somebody who's a good mess. Did the right thing 10 years ago and thought, well, I did the right thing 10 years ago. Guess what? Certain things in the last 10 years have gone up, and certain things haven't gone up nearly as much. So instead of they thought they were in a 60-40, guess what they were in? A 60% stock, 40% bond portfolio? Guess. 10 years. 10 years. 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Um that was 40-60 instead of 60-40. No, 100-0?

SPEAKER_03 14:15

85% in stocks, 15% in bonds, because stocks have gone up so much.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Now, when you ask me these questions where I just kind of, I mean, it's like, okay, I'll guess something, but it's probably not right.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

But the stocks have gone up much faster than the bonds. So you've have gone from a 60-40. So they were taking massive amounts of risk. They had no idea. But that's a that's not a procedural one, but that's a you know, paying attention to one. But these are all important, uh, and it just shows you rules, damn rules, and more. No, that's statistics.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Well, and but what it reinforces is our belief that, yeah, you can get by when you're younger because you're you're just accumulating. You don't need a particularly complex portfolio. You're just putting money into IRAs and 401ks, you're not taking it out. It's when you get to taking it out and leaving it to heirs and paying taxes and doing the required minimum distributions and the proper portfolio allocations for the withdrawal phase of your life. That's when it starts. You have to have some help. You have to have a financial advisor, you have to have a good accountant, you have to have uh a good attorney. You have to have these people involved. If you've been a successful accumulator, if you want to protect that which you have accumulated over all those years.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

I think that's well, well said. It gets more complicated as we get older. And it's just putting money in, that's one thing.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 15:44

Taking it out with all these rules, whole other game completely.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

The other option is just dying early. Getting out of the way. Somebody else deal. Leave it somebody deal with it. It's money. You know, they're getting money, they can't.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

And then by the way, if you do that, then that eliminates the pain of doing a podcast every day as well. That makes life easier in many ways.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Now, uh, because today's podcast was recorded a little late because Tom injured himself falling out of bed. I don't know what wild thing he was doing.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

Boy, it was really wild, like getting out.

Roth Conversion Strategy

SPEAKER_03 16:14

Whoa.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Uh did you do we have a question? Did you are you calling somebody today?

SPEAKER_03 16:18

We have a caller today. Oh, you have a caller today? Like this. Let's go to Salt Lake City where Mike joins us on Talking Real Money. Mike, thanks so much for being part of the program. How can we help you today? My pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

Um my question is really related to our Roth conversion strategy. Um, my wife and I are 65 and 64 year old years old, respectively, um, been retired for about six years. Uh, we have approximately five million uh in various retirement and after tax accounts. Um other very secure income. And currently we have about 1.1 million in an IRA and 2.3 million in a Roth account. And we don't expect to have to draw on either of these accounts for at least the next 10 years. Uh so my focus has been primarily on tax efficiency today and going forward, with the goal of uh at least in my mind staying within that 12% federal tax bracket, and we've got a four and a half percent state tax. Um so uh with that in mind, um looks like we would convert between fifty and sixty thousand a year, uh, which puts us right at the top of that twelve percent tax bracket with the current senior deductions, and some of those obviously will phase out uh in two or three years. My concern is that even if we have a conservative estimate of the IRA account, maybe it grows five percent over the next decade, uh, probably not going to put much of a dent in the future RMDs. And the question comes down to um do I need to be more aggressive with those Roth conversions, at least for the next five years or so until age 70 when my Social Security turns on.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

Yeah, you got a lot of moving parts there. I mean, I here's the thing. I love the 12% tax rate, so I wouldn't want to mess with that, although I don't like hearing I always forget the state you got to throw on top of there. Um I so I wouldn't want to bust that. I think you correctly pointed that out that you don't want to go above that. That would be part one. Part two is I would have to have the cash to pay the tax, which it sounds like you do in a taxable type account. That's correct. Okay, so that's covered. Um, but as you correctly point out, with any growth over time, that's you're gonna be kind of back to the future here in 10 years when you have to start taking the money out. Um so it doesn't and and I guess the fact that it sounds like you have almost two-thirds of it in post-tax, you know, Roth or taxable anyway, uh, which is a which is a lot. Um, and I gotta ask a question. Are you charitably inclined? I mean, is this money you could give away as a QCD? Uh you know, when you when you reach the uh required minimum distribution age?

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Absolutely. Uh that is one of the things that uh we will consider doing once we get to that 70 and a half age. Um the other thing that I failed to mention is what is also out in the future is a uh an inheritance, maybe it's five, ten years away. Um it's about 1.8 million dollars, of which another eight of that eight hundred thousand or so is gonna be inherited as pre-tax assets. So there's another variable to the equation.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

Yeah, which as you know will have to be drawn out in ten years, and you can run the numbers, that's gonna be, you know, as much as perhaps a hundred thousand a year, that's gonna be taxable, that's gonna be kind of messy. I I I guess at the end of the first, number one, the first rule is you got it covered, right? You don't want to bust the tax rate. Number two, you got the cash to pay for it. Number three, the is always the toughest part, kind of anticipating future tax rates. I try to take tax rates as they are today because we just don't know. I think you mentioned something about seeing your deductions coming off. Nobody uh never knows what tax policy is gonna be starting tomorrow. These things change very, very quickly. If it were my money, um, I wouldn't do this without a very careful running of you know calculation. And I do it probably annually. Um, and you know, because of the inheritance come in, that can change things, et cetera, et cetera. And there's if you're gonna do it on your own, Bolden, there's some other really good, you know, planning devices online where you can enter those numbers and kind of give you a feel for what it's gonna look like. Because I'm not sure. Because what at the end of the day, what you're really trying to do is game the tax system and save yourself in later years. I'm not sure that's gonna save you very much for the reason that you pointed out. Um, that with any growth, and it's gonna be, I mean, let's assume 5% growth, which is it's certainly been far greater than that. Uh, and you could put all your bonds in there, so that would keep it lower. But even at that, it's not going to save you that much. So I probably, here's what I probably do. I'd probably do up to the 12%, not bust that, pay the tax on that, and use that strategy moving forward. But I would also run the calculation every year just to see what it might look like down the road. There's no perfect strategy here. Again, when people are our clients, we run it every year to kind of see what it might mean, you know, for the next year of taxation, et cetera, and tax rate. But there isn't one sort of set it and forget it kind of uh our pardon me, uh Roth conversion strategy for the long haul. I just don't know of one. Understand. I think you're doing a lot of things right. I mean, I love the fact that you have the income. I mean, I think you should think about either gifting or, as I said, uh qualified charitable distributions at some point, um, those kind of things that would, you know, eliminate paying tax on that withdrawal that you have to make, support the charities you think are important. Um, but other than that, I don't see a whole whole lot of clear path here to just sort of fixing things so you can pay less tax in retirement.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Well I appreciate the the feedback. I think we're kind of heading down the right general path. I was just looking for a another opinion just to kind of confirm or question.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

Yeah, I think I think I can fairly well confirm it. Um again I I I would probably undertake some of it as you discussed, pay the tax on that and then sort of see how see what the world looks like as it continues moving forward. Sounds great. Thank you so much for being part of the program really appreciate you uh your willingness to be on here. I can I hope you'll tell others it wasn't that painful. And uh and please keep listening. Will do. I enjoy the show.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Thanks Mike take care. Then if he doesn't talk to you on the phone then he grabs his pieces O paper and he reads the question to all of us me included I don't even know what these questions are. This is going to be a total surprise to me. Go ahead Tom surprise me.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

And this is and you're gonna love the name Peter Parker. No Peter from Parker Colorado. Peter from Parker. Peter from Parker makes sense it works uh hi Tom and Don like your show wait a minute like just like I don't think we should read his question everybody says love. I know he says like I got to think that through a little bit too much everybody except our crypto people says love. Uh he says when are you going to play at Fiddler's Green with your AI music? Now I don't know Fiddler's green. I do it's a concert venue in Colorado is it big enough for somebody like you of your size and your popularity?

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Yeah considering that these are all made by AI and there's no band it we would all fit right in there.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

We can have a hologram band or something up there.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

No we'd really just have a you know like a boom box and a microphone.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

That's not as exciting. Okay. Uh Don will know he said that here.

529 Fees Matter

SPEAKER_03 23:44

Um okay here's a question. But seriously should I be concerned about expense ratios when dealing with 529 or Utma plans? And if so how do I determine this is the expense ratio too high, et cetera?

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Yeah you should be concerned about them because some of these 529 plans particularly those that are done with actively managed funds and pricey custodians have some really high fees. That's why we're big fans of Utah's because at least we've looked at all the fees and they're pretty darn fair and reasonable. You don't want to pay you don't want to pay more more than half a percent all I was going to say that.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

All in that's the administrative fees the fund fees the whole kit and the caboodle to boodle.

SPEAKER_03 24:27

Yeah. Peter from you better you better start thinking about how much you love us. Like isn't going to do it anymore but okay. Oh let's go to Cave City Kentucky Jeff he says hello I'm Jeff from Cave City Kentucky you mentioned that already he wrote it I love the show and listen to it he used love I know I'm feeling the love

Retirement Portfolio Review

SPEAKER_03 24:51

standard. He says I met with Tom and Roxy in April for the free evaluation highly recommend this for all your listeners. Oh that's really nice there was no pressure sales pitch I I get tired. I'm old you I told you before you go into these meetings watch Glen Gary Glenn Ross again every time what's my name mine okay uh after that meeting I rolled the majority of my 401k into a personal IRA and set it up like I would be in retirement with about $900,000. I think that's $100,000 yeah uh I just wanted to get your thoughts on the selection. Okay here this here are the funds. You ready? This is it once I make this right okay A V G E 40% oh I like A V G E 40% VXU S 20% okay I I'm happy with that but go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Okay but that's a that's repetitive VBR 100% he's improving his his international allocation you're adding A V GE is meant to be a standalone fund. Okay but what I'm saying is the reason I'm okay with it is because he's uh AVGE has so little international I'd rather 35% 40% slow I'd let rather see 45%.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

Okay. So I okay so he's following the Don McDonald playbook. VBR which is Vanguard's small cap value 10% and BND 30% planning to move to 60 40 when I rebalance any thoughts on these selections and what to do at rebalance would be greatly appreciated. Plan on retiring in two years and we'll need a 3% withdrawal rate. So you heard it from Don. I mean a 70 30 at retirement is is good it's aggressive.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

It's not that's it's not horribly aggressive but it's not particularly conservative either. Uh no and and plus that's good funds. Yes owning the market it's so you could probably pull off something relatively similarly with just A V G E.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

Well you could so I mean to rebalance this Jeff you're just simply at the time that you want to move to the 6040 from the 7030 you'd be looking at which of those funds has gone up the most trimming that off putting it into the B and D, right? The Vanguard total bond that gets you to the 6040.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

If you want to go crazy do uh do B and uh keep B and D and just do a five year CD ladder if you've got a good broker. Oh God here we go.

SPEAKER_03 27:22

Anyway that's my idea stay off ladders because you're old you'll fall too much oh yeah don't go off on ladder I don't I don't do any of that.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

In fact we had the handyman come by the house to fix stuff because I'm not going up and doing that.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

The one when I almost went off the roof 15 years ago that's when I said that's the last time I'm too old for this not going to happen. So yeah this is really good. Thank you Jeff for your kind comment as well. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

That was very nice and he said love. Yeah he said love send the love man you know considering uh all that we had to do today we we came in under a a real a really reasonable time frame. Yeah okay so thank you all for being a part of this we appreciate you and we hope you'll tell a friend or two about what we do right here. Uh give us a call uh you can look the number up I'm not gonna give it to you if you want to talk to one of our advisors or go to talkingrealmoney.com and click on meet an advisor or send us your questions with the ask a question button those go to Tom or the microphone button those go to me for the five can I say one thing here it's your show too I love you all thanks for joining us I don't like you all

Disclosures and Signoff

SPEAKER_01 28:29

I love you all so and now to wrap up here's a reminder that we're talking real money the opinions and views expressed on this podcast were current on the date recorded.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Opinions, estimates, forecasts and statements of financial market trends that are based on current market conditions constitute our judgment and our subject to change without notice including any forward-looking estimates or statements which are based on certain expectations and assumptions. Although information and opinions given have been obtained from or based on sources believed to be reliable, no warranty or representation is made as to their correctness, completeness or accuracy. Information presented on the podcast is not personalized investment advice from Apello Well the views and strategies described may not be suitable for everyone. This podcast does not identify all the risks, direct or indirect or other considerations which might be material to you when entering any financial transaction. The podcast is not trying to get you to buy or sell any financial products or securities. Instead the program is provided as a public service by Apello Wealth, a fee-only registered investment advisor. Please see ApolloWealth ADB Part 2A on our website for information regarding Appellos fees and services. Apello Capital LLC DBA Apello Wealth is an investment advisory firm registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The firm only transacts business in the states where it is properly registered or excluded or exempt from registration requirements. Registration with the SEC or any state securities authority does not imply a certain level of skill or training appello does not provide tax or legal advice and nothing either stated or implied here should be inferred as providing such advice. Thanks for listening and please visit talkingrealmoney.com for more information and important disclosure related to performance of any specific index or fund quoted in this podcast.