Ep. 2000: Bonds Are Doing Their Job

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Hello the market. That never love back. Changed every whisper. Believed every heck. It kissed me springtime. And left me. And I danced with my making money. Talking real money.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Oh, that was a sweet song. Sad lament. Old school Nashville style. Yeah. Right here on Country Music, whatever. Hi

Bond Fund Reality Check

SPEAKER_01 2:15

everybody. Uh I know that one was a little long. That one ran two minutes because it was a lot of verses. Um remember, if you don't, if you're the one of the people who don't like the music, there are a couple of you, almost all the podcast players have a skip forward 30-second button. Just hit that once or twice or three or four times. Four times on that one. Four times. And just think of it this way Talking Real Money is now commercial free. It's been commercial free for a while, so there's no commercials. And that was, come on, you have to admit that's more fun to listen to than a commercial. Right? Right. Thanks for being here today. Timely topic. Even though we recorded this a couple of weeks ago, it's probably still a timely topic. I don't imagine that this is going to become less timely as time goes by, given the current economic environment, not just here, but overseas. I mean, the current bond debacle kind of started in France.

SPEAKER_05 3:16

Yeah, it did.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

And then worked its way over here.

SPEAKER_05 3:18

It's and it's we're getting more questions from you. Uh, the more people I talk to uh are worried about this because bond yields have gone up. That's the how much they're going to pay you, right, for for owning those bonds. Um that meant the prices have gone down accordingly. This is the part that people have trouble remembering, unless they have bond funds.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

When overall bond yields rise, when the market is demanding higher interest rates to own bonds, the value of older bonds must fall to make them competitive, to give them a yield to maturity, part of which is the appreciation in value that matches whatever the current market wants.

SPEAKER_05 4:02

Yeah. And it's an absolutely 100% critical thing to know. But let's so, because you've been writing me. So for example, uh just got a guy who wrote me yesterday and said, Hey, you told me to own BND, the Vanguard Total Bond Fund, and year to date it's down 2.7%, which BND represents the aggregate bond fund. Um, so I thought, well, I'll look at a few others because somebody else wrote me about the Vanguard Municipal Fund. Yeah, it's down VTEB, that's down 3.7%. How about it gets a little safer? Um, an Intermediate Treasury Fund, V G I T down 3%. You get in the getting the pattern here. Or if you want to use an active manager, because you really believe that that's going to make you more money. Uh the Pimco Total Return Fund, PTTR.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Oh, how bad did it do?

SPEAKER_05 4:51

3% down to date. And and here's now, here's where it gets interesting. The Vanguard High Yield Fund, which as you may know, we'll refer to as junk, right? These are bonds that are riskier. The WEHX down 0.2%. So it's hung in there a lot better than the um the other.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Because municipal junk bonds are not competing with the other high-quality paper. They they they are a different animal. They they don't react the same way. They react more to economic downturns, to they react more like the stock market. And that sets this up for you. Before we go any further, I need to kind of call all of us on the carpet. What's happening right this well, when we recorded this two weeks ago, and probably still happening, what is happening right now is that a balanced portfolio, 60% stocks, 40% bonds, 30, 70, 30, whatever it might be, is doing exactly what it's supposed to do, normally do, which is generally speaking, bonds go down less, but they go down at times, generally when stocks are rising, because when stocks have been rising, there's usually rapid economic growth, which causes bond yields to rise because of the fear of inflation. So they're doing, here's the thing: they're doing what they're supposed to be doing, what they should have done all along. We've been spoiled because our stock funds have gone up and our bond funds have gone up, basically, for decades. Decades. Because we had falling interest rates. Now we've gone back to a uh actually a slightly more normal situation where the economy for stocks is booming, and that's feeding fears of inflation, and there's a lot more U.S. debt, there's a lot more foreign debt, uh and and that causes interest rates to rise. So this is not abnormal by any stretch of the imagination, and it's doing what it's supposed to be doing.

SPEAKER_05 7:01

What you're saying is I don't get to have my chocolate brownie with the chocolate ice cream on top. I gotta get rid of the ice cream that's going away. You can't just the brownie.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

The consequences are on you. Well, as as you can see they are in the room.

SPEAKER_05 7:15

As you can see, they are.

Active Bonds vs Risk

SPEAKER_05 7:17

Okay, but what this has led to, the the this is the part that's very fascinating to me because people look and say, Wait, I've lost money in my fixed income. I got to find an alternative fixed income to deal with this, make some money. Um, Jason Zweig, one of our favorite writers, who's got a book coming out, I think, in the next few months, uh has pointed out that this is a fascinating number. 75% of fixed income funds outperform the Bloomberg U.S. Aggregate bond index over the past year, right? Three out of four. So that sounds I'll pick one of those. Well, get one of those active funds because they're better. They're smart people, right? Well, over what period? The last year, he says. But they the other bond funds that are outperforming, well, they have they've taken more credit risk, they've taken more interest rate risk. They own a whole bunch of things like you know, there's junk in there, there's all kinds of assets that the the aggregate bond index, which primarily owns uh corp, some corporate, right, but high-quality corporate and U.S. treasuries, primarily, right? Um, so these non-traditional bonds, Don, stock index options, real estate, business development companies, these are not your traditional, your grandfather's bond funds. Risk.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

See, that gets away from the whole idea of stock and bond diversification. What you're trying to do now, you're trying to get your bond, the what you feel is the fixed income side of your portfolio, to behave more like the stock side. And when the stocks side takes a beating, everything is going to move dramatically lower. You're not gonna have the anchor, the buoy, the the ballast that the bonds provide to your portfolio. You're jumping with it's like buying a hundred percent equity portfolio when you start doing this. It's very similar.

SPEAKER_05 9:17

And it's worse than all that because he points out that 43 bank loan funds, 24 municipal funds, and four emerging market funds, well, they compare their returns against the aggregate bond fund. That's not a comparison in any way, sense, or form. He points out Janice Henderson's income ETF shows that fund has beaten the AG, aggregate bond index, like BND, by a margin of more than two percentage points since it launched in, well, 2024 is not a long time, but that fund has 27% of its assets in bank loans, 23% in junk bonds, 9% in mortgages, not backed by the U.S. government. Which Investgo fund is that? No, that's the Janice Henderson. Oh, Janice Henderson ETF, uh, which I don't know the price, but uh he went back to Henderson and asked them. He said, well, you know, they they they said, yeah, we're we're allowed to compare it to that because it's a broad-based index. Not a good comparison there at all. You got all these other companies. JP Morgan says over 90% of its active fixed income investments outperform passive benchmarks over the past 10 years. Uh the footnote says there's a percentage of assets rather than the number of funds that beat their primary perspective benchmarks. In other words, they're taking way more risk with these assets, but they're comparing it to the aggregate bond, you know, the BND, for example. Not a good comparison.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Well, and the thing is that Janice Henderson income ETF, which is J I I I. G G. G G Y. J-I-I-I expense ratio. What's expense ratio on BND? It's like three one hundredths of one percent.

SPEAKER_05 10:55

I'll I'll go with that, sure.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:57

And how much is the Janice Henderson wonderful pick? Over half a percent.

SPEAKER_03 11:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

And the portfolio, I'm looking at the latest version thereof. And over getting close to 50 percent of the portfolio is junk or not rated. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_05 11:18

Not rated, yeah, exactly. That's not a compare. You cannot compare that fund to the aggregate. They're allowed to, apparently, by the SEC, but you should not be allowed to do that. That's outrageous. Really is. Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Well, it's not a fair comparison by anyone. Nope. But they're doing a measure. I and yeah, let me just check. BND is three one hundredths of one percent. Yeah. And BND's portfolio is uh ninety percent investment grade with only ten percent non-rated

Why Bonds Still Matter

SPEAKER_01 11:47

paper.

SPEAKER_05 11:48

Yeah, yeah, but not not a comparison. So okay, so to go back to the beginning, because this is this is a discussion that we'll continue to have. Number one, in the long haul, you own stocks and bonds for very different reasons. Stocks for growth, bonds for cushion. And as Don correctly points out, right now it's you're getting the growth with the stocks, but the bonds are suffering because of potential greater inflation. Number two, you own short and intermediate term bonds, which have been cushioned a bit by this blow, and you own the higher quality, right? Height treasuries and investment grade funds. And the other part of all this is, and this has come up because somebody else wrote me yesterday and said, hey, for the last six months, you know, I don't really care that much about the last six months. I care about the long exactly the longer haul here. Because that's risky. You make decisions based on six months, you could get in a whole lot of trouble.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Yeah, you cannot, you cannot be watching your portfolio short term and think it's indicative of anything at all. It's not. And again, I want to go back to the point I I raised earlier. This is what is supposed to happen. They are supposed to move and typically have in longer periods of time in slightly different directions, not in lockstep. But bonds should perform less well when your stock portfolio has been performing better than typical. Four years in a row of double digit gains. Much better. So crazy. Again, you're doing this uh French Revolution thing. You're you're wanting your cake and then you want to eat it. Oh, okay. No, not off with their heads. Uh not that kind of show. But I get it. And that's why we keep you know, this is why we still have a job. Thank you for being being human. Because if you weren't human, we wouldn't need to be here. You would just be perfect in every way. Now you're not. If you're imperfect and you have a question, well, you can send us questions anytime by going to talkingrealmoney.com, which is our website. You click on the button and you type in your question. The button says ask a question. And then the question comes to Tom, and Tom triages it. He pretends he's uh working in a financial hospital. He triages it. He goes, Ah, ah, this one needs some special care and attention. It needs a call from Super

Roth Conversion for Heirs

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Tom.

SPEAKER_05 14:18

Let's go to Destin, Florida, which I'm told is a long way from Don McDonald, so that's really good news. Up in the panhandle of Florida, and Timothy joins us. Hey Timothy, how are you today? Hey, I'm doing great, uh, Tom, how are you? I'm doing fantastic. Thanks for being on the program.

SPEAKER_04 14:35

How can we help you? Okay. Well, I had written in a letter and it was talking about uh Roth conversions, which is kind of interesting because yes uh on the program yesterday I was listening to you talking about uh Roth conversions. Uh I have not done any Roth conversions because I'm an old guy and Roth came in kind of late, and by the time it did, I didn't really see that uh you know it was going to help that much. Um and so as a result, I am I've ended up with in retirement now with uh three uh major assets, uh my my IRA, my T I was a government worker, and my uh uh a brokerage account. Yeah. Now uh I don't uh have any real needs for that because I've got a lot of income right now that is covering uh our expenses. I have a very healthy uh government pension and uh and then Social Security. Uh after I retired about 12 years ago, I continued to work uh teaching and I've I bank a lot of that money. That's where some of the uh money in the in the brokerage account comes from and stuff. But I'm at a point now when the Roth conversion is starting to uh to kick eke up, and I'm I'm wondering if maybe I should be doing some of that. Uh by TSP, despite the last couple of years of taking out more than what was uh required by the RMDs, uh, has actually grown. And uh as as has my IRA and and my other counsel because of how the markets are doing and stuff. And so I'm I'm not getting any closer to dying with zero, if that's uh if if that's a good goal. Uh but uh I am concerned that if I should pass, then I'm gonna leave a burden on my wife. Uh she will continue to receive a lot of my pension. Uh, she'll also get uh my Social Security, uh, which is the higher of hers, and which she will get, as well as uh any RMDs that she'll be forced to take out of uh out of these accounts. The uh problem is that she does not like dealing with finances and stuff, so I want to keep stuff very, very clean and very clear. But my fear is that uh by the time that she passes, if if she should pass after me, then uh we will have a good deal of money in here to pass along as a legacy, and none of it will be uh really protected. The the uh are my kids will have to take out uh everything within about 10 years just out of uh of what I got. And so a Roth would protect against that. Now, the normal way I guess would be to take money, transfer money from the IRA or from the TSP into a Roth IRA. But uh because of uh again, keeping things simple for my wife, my thought would be to do Roth conversions within the TSP itself. Uh and uh that way the investments would be very simple. And uh I would I'd have one less step to do. I would just I would just convert it directly in the in the TSP. Uh TSP allowed that starting this year. I haven't done anything about it this year, but they they started to allow it, and so that's why um it's come to mind again.

SPEAKER_05 18:14

That's a lot there. Um, okay, a couple things. First of all, uh do you have the cash to pay the additional tax on any conversion you might do?

SPEAKER_04 18:23

Yes, I do, but there's a but there's another trip there too, because I uh last year I took out uh and this year I took out in excess about uh $25,000 each uh year of what I was charged to do by the RMD in the TSP. And uh I as a result I lost the big beautiful bill uh X or half of the big beautiful bill excess deduction, yeah, that that was there. And so if I was to continue to do that, I would lose it. I understand that's expiring, so I could put it off until uh until that that accounts. But yes, of course I have the cash because I have again the brokerage account, which we're not draining very, you know, at all. Yeah. Right now, I'm just taking big deductions and trying to find ways to spend them on the kids.

SPEAKER_05 19:12

Yeah, which I love. Um, so I mean, rarely does it make sense if you're already in the stage of your life where you're taking the required minimum distributions to add to that and do a Roth conversion. Now you raise an unusual circumstance in that you're really trying to you're willing to pay the tax now so that the burden is on your less on your wife when she inherits the money or whoever gets it. Yeah, because they get the 10-year limit. Yes. Yeah. Your wife, of course, can stretch that over the remaining of her lifetime. She can just, in fact, roll it right into her retirement accounts. You know, so I guess then the only thing then I would warn you about is not busting the bracket, right? So whatever bracket you're in today, I wouldn't want to go to a higher one uh for the pleasure of, you know, paying taxes today, uh, because that just doesn't make sense to me. But if you had the cash and this is something you kind of want to do from a charitable standpoint, in other words, I don't want to leave anybody with a big burden, then I guess that would make sense. I I see, but again, if you if you came in my door tomorrow and you said, hey, I'm really thinking about this, I'd be saying, you're already taking the money out, you're already paying tax on it. Why do you want to why do you want to put it into a Roth? But I but I could see that I could see that conversion strategy in your circumstance just to make the burden less in the future for others.

SPEAKER_04 20:29

Am I really going through all of this to save very little money? Yeah. Again, conversions would be limited, certainly by the brackets.

SPEAKER_05 20:41

Yeah, no, I mean that's the thing, right? I mean, for me, again, I will leave money. I'm gonna leave some post-tax, more pre-tax. And my take is this money you wouldn't have had otherwise, is money that I, you know, saved and invested and didn't spend during my lifetime. And if you got to pay, you know, 20, 25% of it to the government, well, so it goes. Uh, you're a nicer guy than I am, I guess. So at the end of the day, which I think is wonderful. Uh it wouldn't be huge on my list, but again, I don't, I mean, I don't think it's a awful idea. And again, if you could do it up to the bracket, whatever one you're in, and not much more, then that's probably okay. We didn't get a whole lot of, we didn't move along a whole lot. I mean, Roth Conversions is just one of those places we get an awful lot of questions. It really is very personal. And frankly, unless we all start, you know, relatively early, you retire relatively early, and your income goes down a lot, from a purely financial standpoint. I think what you just said, it really doesn't change things all that much. I mean, one of the things I've advocated for the last decade is frankly, the government should just turn all retirement savings into Roth. People pay the tax today, it grows tax free, it cleans things up at the end of your life. There's no required minimum distributions, all that stuff. But you know, I'm fighting a big industry around all this, so I my my opinion is probably fair. Fairly limited, I guess. So I really appreciate the call, Timothy. It's a pleasure. We wish you nothing but the best. Enjoy your grandkids and do all that fun stuff in your life. Thanks for being part of the program. I love listening to you guys every every day. Appreciate it. You take care. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

And then the rest of you who are not as seriously ill get the standard treatment where he just reads it off a piece of paper and sends you a bill for $4,000. Is that what it is? No, we're not healthcare industry industry.

SPEAKER_05 22:24

We're not the healthcare industry. Oh, I was going to say this is not talking real money.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

I read a thing before you get to your question. I read an article somewhere in the past, not too distant past, where a woman went to an emergency room for migraines. Her doctor said, go to the ER, it's lasting too long. Go get checked out. So she checked in. They took her vitals. You know how they just immediately check your vitals make sure you're not having a heart attack, that the migraine's not a heart attack. I was told that my spine collapsing was a Charlie horse. I mean you gotta Anyway. Yeah, I've been there, done that. She got triaged down to, you know, you got a headache, you're not a gunshot victim. Yep. So eventually she and her sister said, She's in too much pain. We're gonna go to another hospital. They left, they checked out, they went to another hospital, they got a bill for $410. For sitting in the room. For sitting in the room.

SPEAKER_05 23:23

Yeah. Okay. That's great to where we are today. That's where we are today.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

All right, let's do some questions. I don't think we we don't have any healthcare questions.

SPEAKER_05 23:31

No, we do not. All right. No. And they're good questions.

Paying Roth Taxes With Assets

SPEAKER_05 23:35

Granger, Indiana, where Rick resides and writes, hey, I'm the guy who wrote about audio hygiene. I don't know if I mentioned this. Thank you for silencing your phones and other alert beeps and bot boops. So this this is something that happens. By the way, Rick, I can't do anything about it. This computer somehow, I don't know how, is hooked up to my cell phone. So then when people call my cell phone or send me text during the show, it rings through. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

You can do it. I could show you how to do it, but here's the problem. It would take a long time. You would shut off your notifications everywhere and you wouldn't get any phone calls. And that's one of the biggest problems is that it's not smart enough to know, okay, right now I'm don't buy it.

SPEAKER_05 24:13

Do it on the phone, but don't do it on the phone. Anyway, Rick, thank you for paying it.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:17

So I do apologize. Uh the question with a Roth conversion, you and others say to have the cash on hand to pay the income tax. In other words, don't pay for a Roth conversion from the IRA. Right. Yeah. Okay. Uh he says I'm he's I'm 69 still working. My employer rules for the 403B are that it can't be touched until retirement. I'd like a little more in my Roth. Why shouldn't I do the conversion and that and then spend the Roth money on the taxes? Money is is fungible, isn't it? Taken from an investment account just means there's a little less in the account to grow. Situation is $800,000 in a 403B, 60K in the Roth, planning to work a few more years. In other words, I get it. I see what he's saying.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

But there's a lot less to grow because the tax is huge. There's a lot less to grow. Wait, there's a we forgot to add to the end of that sentence, there's a lot less to grow tax-free.

SPEAKER_05 25:13

Yeah. Um so I don't think it's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

So you're hurting yourself to the tune of twenty, twenty-five, twenty-eight percent.

SPEAKER_05 25:19

Yeah. I I don't like that strategy. By the way, I did look it up. And inside some 403Bs, you can do a transfer from a pre-tax to a post-tax Roth. Some depends on the plan.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Um but uh But you still need the money elsewhere to do it. Otherwise, it's otherwise, because here's the thing you're getting tack currently you're getting tax-deferred growth, which has a high value. Sure. Tax-free growth has a higher value, but tax-deferred growth still has a value because you're making money on money that you did not give to the government. The minute you give it to the government, that advantage goes away, and you're not being compensated for the loss of that advantage. There is no benefit to you. As a matter of fact, there's a detriment because it could kick you into a higher tax bracket, too.

SPEAKER_05 26:04

Amen. Um, so anyway, so no, Rick, we wouldn't advise that. He also adds, thank you for making money talk informative and interesting. He must have been referring to the times that I'm on the program. Did he say didn't he say the Friday QA?

SPEAKER_01 26:17

He didn't mention that. I think he said that. Ah, wait, let me wait, let me go check the statistics on which is the most popular show. Oh, where people are listening. Oh, it's the Friday QA show.

SPEAKER_05 26:27

Oh, look, four and oh. That's the one where my grandsons love advancing the program right to the end because they really like the disclaimer the best.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

So they like Tory's

Kids, Annuities, and Better Options

SPEAKER_01 26:37

disclaimer. They love that disclaimer.

SPEAKER_05 26:39

It's funny. Jason writes us from Southfield, Michigan. I was reading Jonathan Clements' last book, Money and Me My Life Through the Lens of Personal Finance. Jonathan Clements, a prolific writer, and I think he passed away a little bit. He passed away from cancer recently. In the book, Jonathan references a strategy of purchasing an annuity for his children as a way to achieve tax-deferred growth. What are your thoughts on this strategy? How would someone actually set this up for a child? What kind of annuity would be used? And the does the tax treatment work? Most importantly, would you recommend using the same strategy today and under what circumstances would it make sense?

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Okay, he was a prolific writer. I enjoyed some of his writing. I didn't agree with everything he said, and I definitely don't agree with this one because I just don't see an advantage, a big enough advantage, in simple tax-deferred growth in an annuity versus all the potential downfalls. For example, a variable annuity, which gives you a growth component potentially, has very high fees that eat up any tax-deferred benefit. Give the kids a Roth if they've got uh uh earned income. That's a much better way to go, and it's tax-free.

SPEAKER_05 27:48

Well, I think today there's two places. I think um there's a new program. It's titled for the uh for for Mr. Trump, who's our current president, the Trump accounts. That's one way I think you can help kids, because I think that does that grows and then it becomes an IRA later on or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

It can become something like that. You got and the 529. That's what I was getting to.

SPEAKER_05 28:07

The 529, huge advantage. You save the money, even if the kid doesn't go to college, you can take out 35k of that over the years and plug it into their Roth IRA, gives them a huge head start. I would much rather see either of those used prior to any annuity.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

And again, if your kid, in addition to those two, there's the third thing. If they have any earned income, which many, many, many teenagers do, sure. And young adults, help them fund their Roth. They generally don't make enough money that they can comfortably fund a Roth IRA. You know, they're they're they're they're working minimum wage jobs, and so there's not a ton of money left over. So be a a good family member and help them out with that. But don't buy them an annuity and make an insurance agent richer.

SPEAKER_05 28:53

What uh what is a minimum wage today, by the way?

SPEAKER_01 28:57

I do not know. It depends on where you are. In some states, it's very high compared to others. Like I think in Florida it's ridiculously low.

SPEAKER_05 29:05

Yeah, I think here it I think it's like eighteen bucks an hour. Remember, my daughter was getting that, but then she's getting all those tips. We've figured it out. Remember, she was making close to thirty bucks an hour working at the pizza place.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:16

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

So spoiled in every aspect of her life.

SPEAKER_05 29:21

Well, she deserves it dealing with me. Yes in every aspect of her life. Okay, it's compensation.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

I get it now. That's why, yeah, okay. That's why I make it's a trade-off. Yeah, that's why I make the big bucks, because they said, Oh, we got to pay him more to work with Tom. You know, I really I'm gonna let me look up what minimum wages are. The federal minimum wage is $725. I don't think that's moved in ages. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:43

Um Washington, I believe, is close to $18 an hour. Or it maybe it is $18. It's it's substantial, I'll say that. But not a living wage, I'll put it that way too.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Not in the Seattle area. The Puget Sound area. No, elsewhere in the state of Washington, I bet you can do it. But you know, the Colfax, maybe, or something. Yeah, I was gonna say the see the highest oh, the highest statewide minimum wage is the great state of Washington. Dun dun dun dun. How much? Uh 1713 an hour.

SPEAKER_05 30:18

I said 18. Okay, I was rounding.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Washington, D.C., though, is higher, but it's not a state at 1840. District. And the highest my daughter's dog is here.

SPEAKER_05 30:30

You just heard the dog barking, yeah. My daughter's late wants her raise.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

This dog goes through uh uh separation anxiety. My daughter's out with her boyfriend, and the dog is here, and I'm recording, and the dog has separation anxiety, and so the dog howls like a wolf, except it's about a 10-pound dog.

SPEAKER_05 30:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Yeah. Umrian. Burian, Washington. Burian, Washington.

SPEAKER_05 30:59

Wow. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

$21.78 an hour. Now, Burion is a cheaper place to live. Yes, it would. So you could live pretty well in Burion on $22 an hour.

SPEAKER_05 31:10

I don't know about pretty well, but you couldn't.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Well, better than Seattle, but better than Bellevue.

SPEAKER_05 31:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

Absolutely. Lake in Bellevue. Nobody. Yeah. I mean, you can't even afford to live in Duval.

SPEAKER_05 31:22

Uh barely. Barely.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Not on Lake Washington, which Tom is famous for now. Not Lake. Lake Margaret. Lake Margaret. Lake Washington. You could never afford a house on Lake Washington. Oh. No. Not in any way, shape, or form. No, I don't care how rich you are.

SPEAKER_05 31:36

They don't even let me visit. I can't much less than that.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

You've been there before. It was years ago. They remember you from Medina Days.

SPEAKER_05 31:43

Exactly. Medina Days. That sounds bad.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

All right, I have to go get the dog.

SPEAKER_05 31:48

So give us a dog up, please.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Send us your questions. Either speak them or type them at talkingrealmoney.com. And if you want to meet with an advisor or or a dog with serious anxiety disorders, go to talkingrealmoney.com and click on meet a dog or meet an advisor. I think it's meet an advisor. Yeah, I'm confused by the dog barking. It's annoying. Thanks for listening. We appreciate you, you, and you. Maybe not so much you because you wrote a bad review, but the rest of you we really appreciate. I'm Don. That's Tom. And what do we do?

SPEAKER_02 32:18

Well, we're talking real money.

Closing Disclosures

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Opinions, estimates, forecasts, and statements of financial market trends that are based on current market conditions constitute our judgment and are subject to change without notice, including any forward-looking estimates or statements which are based on certain expectations and assumptions.

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Although information and opinions given have been obtained from or based on sources believed to be reliable, no warranty or representation is made as to their correctness, completeness, or accuracy.

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Information presented on the podcast is not personalized investment advice from Oppello Wealth. The views and strategies described may not be suitable for everyone. This podcast does not identify all the risks, direct or indirect, or other considerations which might be material to you when entering any financial transaction. Past performance does not guarantee future results, and profitable results cannot be guaranteed. We hope you realize that the information provided on Talking Real Money is for informational, educational, and hopefully enjoyable purposes only. The podcast is not trying to get you to buy or sell any financial products or securities. Instead, the program is provided as a public service by Appello Wealth, a fee-only registered investment advisor.

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See Appello Wealth ADV Part 2A on our website for information regarding Appellate's fees and services.

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Appellate Capital, LLC, DBA Appello Wealth, is an investment advisory firm registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The firm only transacts business in the states where it is properly registered, or excluded or exempt from registration requirements. Registration with the SDC or any State Securities Authority does not imply a certain level of skill or training. Appello does not provide tax or legal advice, and nothing either stated or implied here should be inferred as providing such advice. Thanks for listening, and please visit talkingrealmoney.com for more information and important disclosure related to performance of any specific index or fund quoted in this podcast.