Worried About Inflation?

SPEAKER_00 0:05

You're gonna do a really great financial future. Tom and Don are talking real money.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

The human condition. We have our little quirks and foibles, don't we? And when it comes to money, we have a couple of big ones. We worry about well a lot of things, but particularly things like and silly things like taxes or hedging against inflation.

Inflation and Magical Thinking

SPEAKER_02 0:37

We're always trying to find something to magically transform our portfolios into something that will never go down and always go up. We want magical stuff we do, and we're not gonna get it, and that's why we're here to help you. We could say you could get magical stuff, and we would probably have a much bigger audience, but we refuse to lie to you, pander to you. This is the non-pandering talking real money podcast with your host, me, Don McDonald. And your other host, Tom Cock. Hi, Tom.

SPEAKER_04 1:15

Hey, uh, you know what? Here's the thing about the I guess we're still not getting paid by Avantis or dimensional either, right? No.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Okay, because hold on, let me check my bank account and see if they surprise me with a little transfer. Yeah, but no, nothing from Avantis or dimensional, or even indirectly through their buddies.

SPEAKER_04 1:33

No, I know. I I heard you talking about it again the other day.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

Because people keep thinking we're on the take. Why do people think we're on the take? Because we're suspicious by nature, and I don't blame us because I'm sorry, but most people in this industry are slightly, slightly crooked.

SPEAKER_04 1:50

Slightly crooked. Okay, but you raised an interesting topic, one of which is, I think, way, way too much time and energy is spent on, and that is inflation. The fact that things cost more tomorrow than they did today. That's been a factor for what, 3,000 years, basically, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Yes. Yeah. Okay, I'll give you 3,000 years. Yes. Okay. Um I'll give you two. I I don't have data going back that previous thousand. But I can get data going back to uh Julius Caesar's time, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:22

Yeah, I just I just watched a series on Rome, as you know, because I'm headed there this summer. But here's the thing. Oh, you're roaming? I'm roaming. Again. Inflation now, if the government is to be believed, right? And there's arguing about that.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Yeah, argue about that.

SPEAKER_04 2:40

Is running at 3.8%. Which is, and I know this is gonna be unbelievably shocking. The highest rate of increase in over three years. Over three years. We're we're we're not short-sighted, are we? No. Which to you and I seem like, you know, 15 minutes ago. You know. Sometimes somebody's saying about something about 2015. I'm like, yeah, I I I I I don't remember because it was literally like yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Well, at our age, at our age, they're gerbil years. Yeah. Not even dog years, they're gerbil years.

SPEAKER_04 3:13

But there's a lot of whining and complaining. Gas is up 28 percent year to year year over year, wages are up 3.6 percent, food, electricity, and airfares going up a lot. It turns out. But um I this is and I guess this is my problem, like a lot of other things. But here's the thing. I didn't want to say that.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

I know. But since you admitted it, yeah. The Federal Reserve's target spiking of foibles.

SPEAKER_04 3:41

Large, you said large foibles. Large foibbles. Which I kind of hurt my feelings. Speaking of the fo the Fed target is two percent. Look, my target weight is the same as I was in college. That's my target. It ain't gonna happen. And two percent is pretty low when you look at okay, and I know we're gonna have a discussion about this. Let me finish. Hundred-year average, hundred years of data now. Three percent. That's been the average.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

But that's the average. What about those aberrant periods? Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:15

Let's so if we can we can have low to low inflation if we have a period like what the uh oh, let's say Great Depression. That would be good. Let's do that about it. Well, that's an aberration. Yeah, let's do that.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

I'm pretty sure we had deflation. Yeah. Uh let's see the oh, I got the numbers for you. You ready? Uh in 1930, the inflation rate was negative two. In 1931, it was negative nine. Wow. In nineteen thirty-two, it was negative ten. And in nineteen thirty-three, it was negative five. And that's you don't want that either.

SPEAKER_04 4:51

But again, I this is my take. A lot of whining and moaning about 3.8, which is in my lifetime, I've seen a lot higher. Uh and I know my lifetime's been long compared to many of you. I get it. I did ask, by the way, at the all-staff meeting the other day about people driving to work and whether they've been impacted by the much higher gasoline prices. And about half the room said, yeah, they've they've adjusted their driving. I guess which one of which the adjustments is they just don't come here anymore. That's why.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

They did they haven't come there since COVID.

SPEAKER_04 5:21

I've been wandering the halls like, hi, hi.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Even the four-day-a-week policy. They haven't come in there since COVID. It's three days. Three days. Oh, it's three. Oh. I would bet those three days. Let me guess which three days those are. 99% of the time. Let's see. Guess. You ready? Tuesday, Wednesday, uh-huh, and Thursday.

SPEAKER_04 5:38

Ooh, you are one bright guy.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

And I bet they're working hard at this point.

SPEAKER_04 5:43

I just fired a cannon through the hallway. We're recording this on a Monday, and it didn't hit anybody. Just right through right down

The Cost of Inflation Hedges

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the hall.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

All right. The reason we're talking about inflation, though, is because we're always, as investors, at least we seem to always be looking for that inflation hedge. You know, I want my tips, uh, I want my real estate, I want my gold, whatever it is that's going to hedge against those things. Or, or you could go to the company known for magical thinking and magical product building. You know them. You love them, you buy their stuff, advisors love them, they charge a fortune. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, we're talking once again about Pimco.

SPEAKER_04 6:23

Those wacky and wonderful people from Southern California. Um formerly led by the wacky and wonderful Bill Gross, who's spun off into another planetary system.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

So Yeah, he did kind of go a little whack.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

Oh boy, did he ever.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Pimco has a uh relatively new product. It's called the Pimco Inflation Response Multi-asset Fund.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

You think some marketing guy would have said that's too many words, but apparently.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Or the a symbol you'll never remember, PZRMX. Now, this is a fund that tries to be all things to all people who fear inflation. They go long, they go short, they go tips, they go real estate, they go futures contracts, they just go flipping crazy. And what do they charge you for that? Well, their gross expense ratio is almost 2.3%. Now, they gotta overcome inflation by a big margin to make up for that.

SPEAKER_04 7:32

So two hundred and thirty basis points. You're doing it again just to make people mad, aren't you? I because I just like to compare that to like you could go get BND for was it like three. Three basis points. A lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

230 to three. Oh, and by the way, the one that you're gonna get sold by your broker is the class A share. Oh, so it includes a five point five percent reduction in your investment for the commission to the person selling you the product. So right off the bat, you give up fifty-five hundred dollars on a hundred thousand dollars. Right off the bat.

SPEAKER_04 8:16

When you look at this fund, you not not just the cost, but you look at the makeup of it, you look at what they're trying to do, you really need to bring Al Michaels back in and have him say, Do you believe in miracles? Because the reality is, and by the way, tips, if you think they're gonna rescue you, and in short term they can, but remember I just saw this in the piece. Schwab's U.S. TIPS Exchange Traded Fund lost 12% in the highly inflationary 2022. So it doesn't always tips don't always give you that protection. Um but in the short, this is what I'm getting at. In the short term, the idea that you could use tips, you I guess you could use I bonds, right? Even though they're only paying 4.26 now, or commodities, gold. In the short term, that's going to somehow protect you from higher than expected, unanticipated, unloved inflation. I think it's silly. And this fund is silly, isn't even the right word.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

And the turnover, I gotta tell you all the downsides. Okay, one, leverage. They're borrowing money. They're using derivative securities. We've talked for years, decades, about the dangers of derivatives and how much people love them right up until the derivatives stopped working the way the people who built the derivatives thought the derivatives were so derivatives were supposed to work. Uh-huh. Yeah, it was hard to say. Uh the it's they're in commodities, which go all over the bloody place. They, by the way, they buy their commodities through their Cayman Island subsidiary.

SPEAKER_04 9:48

Oh, yeah. Well, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Which is unregulated. They have high expenses and their turnover, this is the number of times they turn over a portfolio. If you have a portfolio that has a hundred percent turnover, you basically sell the equivalent of everything in the portfolio every year and buy something new. That's a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_04 10:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

Theirs is three hundred and twenty-two percent three times a year.

SPEAKER_04 10:10

They're working hard for you.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

They're working hard for their 2.3 percent.

SPEAKER_04 10:15

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

But here's the problem. Remember how I proved that every year doesn't have inflation earlier in the podcast? Yeah. You know, if we ever have a period like the Great Depression again where we have falling prices, this thing explodes all over you.

SPEAKER_04 10:31

Yeah, because of leverage, because of the debts they've made, et cetera. But again, stepping back, and uh there's a horrible fund. Let's just be honest.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

It's a kind of fund no one should own. No.

SPEAKER_04 10:42

Please do not own this. But let's be honest with ourselves that really when it comes to inflation, increasing prices, increasing wages, the best bet, if you will, that you can make for the long haul is stocks. Stocks. Yeah. And they're simple and they're cheap. Companies increase prices. So here's the thing, Tom.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

And you, listeners, we love you. Um here's the thing. We, as I said, we're we're we're flawed people at the beginning. We thrive at the extremes. We love living out on the edge. We and and this Barons wrote an article about this, and I guarantee you, after the Barons wrote that article, millions and millions of dollars poured into this thing. They got all this press because people love these extreme products. They're looking for this magic pill that will give you a lot of return on the upside and protect you on the downside. And that's a combination you cannot expect.

SPEAKER_04 11:47

Yeah, I I would again give the uh the equate it to my weight, but in this case, now we know you can take a pill to get me back to what I weighed in college.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

So you can't.

SPEAKER_04 11:56

I'd be wrong there. But um, no, there's no there's no real pill or placebo that's gonna fix your inflationary issues. Let's leave it at that.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Yeah. And uh if you want to ask about the inflation hedge uh of the day, uh that would be the inflation hedge de ju. Uh give us uh give us a little note, send it to us. Go to talkingrealmoney.com, the new and improved talkingreal money.com. For those of you who are asking, please, please give me the podcast right there on the home page. You're you're you you're you were heard. It's there. And then you can just click on the button that says ask a question and type your question, and then Tom might call you um kind

Risk Tolerance at Fifty

SPEAKER_02 12:42

of like this.

SPEAKER_04 12:43

In Myland, Pennsylvania, we find Chris who joins us on Talking Real Money. How are you today? I'm doing well. How are you, Tom? I'm doing fantastic. Great to have you on the program. Really appreciate you listening and reaching out to us with your question, which is what would you like to know, sir?

SPEAKER_03 12:59

So I'm um contemplating on how soon I need to start um shifting from a higher stock to bond ratio down to something more conservative. Um, roughly 50 years old, you know, um targeting like a uh, you know, slowing down some around 59 or so. Um, not saying I'm gonna quit working, but I I recently, you know, probably 100% stocks up until this year. I I did make a shift to like an 80-15. And I'm wondering if I'm still a little too aggressive.

SPEAKER_04 13:34

Yeah, it's a great question. Have you ever done one of either two things? Have you ever taken the a risk quiz? We have one of obviously available on our site, or have you had uh, you know, kind of run a plan to say, here's how much money I need to have saved by X to retire? Have you done any of those things?

SPEAKER_03 13:51

Uh actually both. So um, since I've uh emailed my question in, I I took your uh risk quiz there. What was your score? I believe it came back at a 60. Okay. And uh was there a group maybe four or something along those lines? Yep. And and I want to say, reading through that, it may have recommended that I might be down towards like a 6040 style um bond or stock to bond ratio.

SPEAKER_04 14:15

Well, it's possible. But I mean, um how did you feel in you know the spring of 2020, or how did you feel after 2022? I mean, are these sharper market downturns, did those trouble you at all?

SPEAKER_03 14:28

No, I kept investing through them.

SPEAKER_04 14:30

Okay. So I mean, that's a good sign. I mean, and and here's the thing at 50, being in an 80, 20, 80 percent stocks, 20% bonds, that's very reasonable. Um, the question, the second part of the question that I I asked you was like, so have you done any planning? I mean, what rate of return do you need to make on your money to get you to where you want to be by, let's just say, 60? Do you have any idea there?

SPEAKER_03 14:54

So I've done a little of that like on some calculators and things. So probably around a 7% uh gets me to um my, you know, uh a comfortable target for that time frame, I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_04 15:06

Yeah. So I mean an 80-20, obviously any 10-year period could be very idiosyncratic, right? We done there's a lot of things that can I mean it could be 2000 to 2009, right? If you're all invested in the US market, you made basically nothing. Um, so it's very hard to say. But certainly historically, making 7% a year from a portfolio of 70% in stocks, 30% in bonds, or 75% stocks, 25% bonds, that has been very doable. Here's the way I might do it, because it doesn't appear to me that you have any aversion to risk. I might start with the 80-20. I might do that for a year. And then again, maybe the beginning of next year, start reducing it a little bit over time. I mean, the real reason to have bonds in your portfolio, yes, is for sort of limiting the uh the bumps, if you will, the ups and downs. But the other part, frankly, is if let's just say, for example, you did retire at 60 and you needed to start pulling some of this money out, really having it in bonds makes sense because that's a stable pool of money. You can you could have a down market for several years and you still have money in bonds you could pull from. That's the bigger reason, I think, than than sort of portfolio stability. So maybe what you do, Chris, is you start with the 80-20, and then next year, you know, you add 5% more in bonds. So you know you're, you know, 75-25. You do that over time so that you build up your bond portfolio a little bit more. Maybe it, maybe it takes a little longer than that, because again, you know, I wouldn't do anything dramatic today. You've already added some fixed income you see. There is no, there's no prescribed, I know target date funds are going to tell you, well, if you're 10 years from retirement, we're gonna have you, you know, 60% in stocks, 40% in bonds. There's there's no right or wrong there. The really the right or wrong is knowing yourself, and it sounds like you do know yourself, and kind of having an idea of how much money you need to make. If you were working with me and said 7%, I might say, yeah, 75% in stocks, 25% in bonds probably get you there over the longer haul, maybe not, you know, the next one, two, three, four, five years, but likely in 10 or around that number. So I kind of like what you're doing here. I mean, the other part would be to make sure that you're globally diversified, that you have small and value stocks in there, that you really do cover all the bases when it comes to diversification. But overall, I think your strategy is pretty good and I'd sort of stick with it.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Okay, that sounds good. Yeah, so uh regarding the um the diversification, I'm currently like my uh US to foreign would be roughly a 7030. And I am uh I do have uh a small cap value fund, and it's about like 25 percent of the US side of that. So but do you think that that would be too aggressive?

SPEAKER_04 17:49

25% in U.S. small cap value out of the U.S. portion? No, I think that's very reasonable. No, I think that's that's fine. That's that's a that's a that's a tilt that the academics would probably like because again, that asset class has been more productive than large growth uh over the long haul. And you still at 50 have the long haul ahead of you. So no, I think that's very reasonable. You know, I might want a little bit more um you know international since you're basically 70%, I think you said US, 30% international. I might want to, I might want to wind that out to have a you know 60-40 or something like that, but that's not a huge change. No, I kind of like all these things you're doing. It sounds pretty good to me. Excellent.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

Well, I appreciate the uh the call today.

SPEAKER_04 18:31

Well, thank you very much for listening and reaching out to us. And I look forward to the next time we get to chat. Thank you, Tom. Thanks, Chris. Take care.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

All right, you too. Or he takes those written questions, which by the way, are right now in short supply. The trees are rejoicing.

Roth, Taxes, and Flexibility

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Uh if you want to type in a few more questions for Tom, he would be a very happy camper because his pile. Oh, Tom, that you could hardly call that a pile.

SPEAKER_04 18:55

No, it's sad. It's like information. It's sad.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

So we're gonna just be doing like a question now.

SPEAKER_04 19:01

I've got two for today.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

You've got two for today. Oh, good. It is a special day here on Talking Real Money. We're glad you're there. Let me put on my cardigan. Okay, Tom, read your questions. I got my cardigan on.

SPEAKER_04 19:13

No, thank you. Uh from Albany, New York. Albany? Albany? Albany, New York. Albany, you mean Albany? Albany, yeah. I used to live in Albany, California. Georgia.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

There's an Albany New York. Next to Berkeley.

SPEAKER_04 19:26

Yeah. Uh Scott writes, hello, gents. Recently heard an argument stating it could make sense to contribute more to traditional 401k as opposed to Roth when you live in a high tax state, in this case New York, and get much higher than that. Reasoning is as follows: why pay state income taxes now when I might be living in a no-income tax state in retirement? The idea potentially avoid unnecessary double taxation. Well, I think this generally makes sense. Nobody knows what tax rates, federal or state, will look like in 30 years. Thank you, Scott. I can already picture Don getting ready to remind me, don't let the tax tail wag the dog.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Woof, woof.

SPEAKER_04 20:09

Which would be really hard for my my dog weighs like 100 pounds. That would take a heck of a tail. Um, as for my wife and our household income is around $250,000 a year. We're looking to retire in 25 or 30 years. Upon retirement, I'm anticipating a pension of 100K. So we are uh heavy towards the Roth in our retirement contributions. I'm curious if the state-based income tax strategy is worth perform pursuing, or if it's overcomplicating a nonproblem.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

No, I don't think it's overcomplicating. I again I think we think we overthink a little, but but I have always been a big proponent of both. Do both. When you are in a high-tax situation, let's use situation instead of job, because you're in a high-tax situation. You have a great income and you're in a high tax state. In retirement, you might, you don't know, you might have a slightly lower income and live in a state without taxes. So your situation may be lower taxed. We don't know. It could be higher taxed. We don't know. That's why, since we cannot know the future, we cannot. We can try to overthink and outthink every possible scenario, but the reality is we cannot know. Get over this thing where you think, well, I'm definitely going to be in a lower, higher tax bracket in the future. You don't know what you're going to be in the future. You have no flipping idea. Stop it. Just do the 401k at work, for example, with the the uh the traditional? The traditional.

SPEAKER_04 21:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Do your uh other contributions into the Roth. Uh do your company match into the in into the traditional or something. Whatever. Find a way to make both work for you. However, you do it, it doesn't have to be complicated, and then you'll have different pots from which To draw in retirement. And you know what? Taxes are part of the price we pay for living in this country or pretty much any other. I mean, does anybody does any country not tax? Wow.

unknown 22:16

I can't.

SPEAKER_04 22:17

That's a good question. Well, let's find out. I know the U.S. had trouble at the beginning collecting taxes, but um now.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

Well, that's because everybody just kind of lived lived out in the way.

SPEAKER_04 22:27

I'm with you there. I think we should split the baby. I I think I I've always said this, especially 25 to 30 years. You you kind of buried the lead for me. I think having money in different pots is going to be a great thing in your retirement because depending on the tax situation, you could take a little bit from here, right? You could take some from the traditional, you could take some from the Roth, you could take some from the brokerage, and sort of game the tax system, whatever it may be at that time. So yeah, I think that makes a ton of sense.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Uh by the way, there are a few countries that do not have a personal income tax. You ready for your I'm gonna be moving home standing by? Okay, your future home? Okay. Bermuda.

SPEAKER_04 23:09

I could live with Bermuda, I think.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

You could be a pirate. Uh Cayman Islands. Okay with that too. Bahamas, another pirate haven. No problem. Uh there's only one European country on the list. One.

SPEAKER_04 23:25

It's gonna be something obscure.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Monaco. I can live with that, too. Which is kind of like a city-state. And then, of course, there's a reason for the the next six. Saudi Arabia, Oman, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE. Yeah. Wonder why they don't have any personal income tax.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

What is it called? Uh uh gasoline and uh natural gas and all the rest of the stuff. Yeah. You you if you are born in Qatar, I told you this one after I visited there now almost four years ago. You are set. Your education is set, your health care is set, your guess what? Energy is set. You don't have to pay for any of those things. It's a pretty good deal. There are not very many native Qatarians, but uh the people who are, it's a pretty good deal. Handful.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

They're just like, yeah. Yeah. But it would be anyway. There you go. New obscure fact on talking real money. Now to our next question. It's gonna get more obscure. This is the last one.

Foreign Taxes Explained

SPEAKER_04 24:22

Yeah, thank goodness. From Rochester, Minnesota. John writes on the Mayor. What's that? Yes, there's a Rochester, New York episode. This is Minnesota, it says. On the May 13th episode, there's a question about the taxation of VT versus DFAW. VT being Vanguard's total uh total global stock portfolio, DFAW being dimensionals. Oh God, we're gonna get more comments on this.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Oh, this must be about foreign credits. Yeah. VT nobody cares about foreign credits. They're small.

SPEAKER_04 24:53

Let's see. The foreign taxes paid by the fund are included as taxable dividends on the 1099. So the fund is essentially paying those on your behalf. If the fund is mostly foreign, then they can provide that information on the 1099 and you can claim a foreign tax credit. How much, I mean, how much are we talking here? It's pretty small. Since VT is mostly U.S., the foreign tax they paid for you can't be recovered. I think you misunderstood what the question was getting at. For foreign funds, the fund will pay the foreign taxes. That reduces your return. For VT, I don't think they can put the foreign tax paid on your 1099 because the composition is mostly USA US US. I again I always forget it's a small number. It comes up a little bit from time to time about foreign taxes and paying them and writing them off, et cetera. I don't think there's a reason to own one fund over another, though, I'll put it that way.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Yeah, and well, here's the deal. I mean, the it depends on the country, it depends on the kind of portfolio you have. Uh, but if if you have an and it's these are it's only on dividends, it's gotta be a a foreign fund, basically, okay? Uh it depends on the country. It's not a very big tax, it's somewhere between five and fifteen percent generally on the dividends.

SPEAKER_04 26:16

On the dividends.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

On the dividends. So on an this is this is we we get all caught up in minutia because of our stupid big brains that won't shut up. Uh the a typical international ETF with a say 10% withholding tax on dividends, 10%, it's right in the middle, yep, reduces your return by 3%. That's a 3% ETF. That's three tenths of 1%. Yeah. Three tenths of 1%? Yeah. Yeah. So if it's a 10% return, you're at 9.7 now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:48

You'll be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

But but that's in a totally foreign fund. So now you can file the foreign tax credit and get that back. So let's assume you have a fund that's 50-50, which none of them are. I wish they were, but none of them are. Same rules apply. Three percent international dividends, ten percent tax. You're reducing your return by one and a half percent point, I'm sorry, point one, yeah, one and a half percent a year. Uh 0.15. 0.15, not one and a half. 1.5, that's one and a half percent. 0.15, yeah. 1.5%. Not enough. Now you're you're reducing, I'm sorry, 0.15. You're absolutely right. Yeah. 0.15%. 15 basis points. There. This is why basis points are better.

SPEAKER_04 27:35

Easier to illustrate. Yeah. Again, not a big deal and not something to worry about. You should still have international stocks that may pay you dividends. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Because it's not gonna we're we generally buy stocks for growth, folks. That's what they're for. Okay? If they pay dividends, gravy. If you pay a little taxes on the dividends, okay. You know, it reduces your return tiny bit. Just get over it. All right. But don't get over our show. Keep listening. As we say the same things over and over and over again. Hey, you don't go to church

Podcast Milestone and Farewell

SPEAKER_02 28:17

once. Hey, let me tell you, a little little milestone we just crossed. And this doesn't include the lost episodes of the past. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 28:25

The lost episodes. Is that coming to me?

SPEAKER_02 28:26

I mean, the early ones, the ones we did back in the the 20 teens, the early 20 teens. I don't know where they went. They're gone.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

No.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

They're gone.

SPEAKER_04 28:34

We need Leonard Neboy to come out and find the lost episodes.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

Because I keep changing computers. I probably have them on a hard drive somewhere, but I have a stack of like 30 hard drives. That makes me sad. No, they were from the old days. We got them going back to 28. On our podcast service now, we just crossed 1900 podcasts that you can listen to now.

SPEAKER_04 28:57

Good Lord. You know, there have been people who listen to every one. God bless them.

unknown 29:02

Phew.

SPEAKER_04 29:03

And it's not my mom because she'd been dead for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Oh, before we go, this is it was great. Um went to a friend's house to have uh we haven't been we haven't been to their house in a couple of years. They've been just massively busy. She's a investment she's a new investment advisor. Oh, she used to work for Vanguard and then she's put up her own shingle. And how's it going? Well, uh slow. But uh it's uh you know one solo practice. We went into the house and uh they said, We listen to your podcast all the time. Oh that's it. We listen to it when we drive, we just love it. Uh because sh she feels like she gets great advice to help her build a practice. Oh, I love that. So yeah. They really like it. I wish we could help her more, but can't we? No, we compete against her, we can't help it. I know. But good for her. Well, Debbie might go to work for her or something.

SPEAKER_04 29:54

Debbie would be excellent there.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

Yeah, I know. She would be good. Anyway, thanks for listening. Please go to talkingrealmoney.com, the new and improved talkingrealmoney.com, and uh ask your questions. Or if you'd like. If you'd like, right there at the top row it says meet an advisor. What does that do? That allows you to meet an advisor, one of our hundred percent fiduciary advisors at Apella. No cost, no obligation, we don't require you to even bring in a pound cake, no high-pressure sales pitch. That's a promise we've been making for a long time. Because we want you to get this right. And to get it right, we believe it requires us sitting around almost every day talking real money.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

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