Old Dad, Young Kid?

SPEAKER_02 0:05

You're gone to a really great financial future. Tom and Don are talking real money.

Older Parents Money Matters

SPEAKER_01 0:12

I think the moral of today's story is going to be hey, old guys, act your dating age. But I'm not sure where we're going with this. We're going to find out. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Talking Real Money. We have a unique topic for you today, but it is money-oriented, and Tom has special expertise in today's topic that I do not have. In some ways, a little bit. No, not to the extent you do. No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You, you, you outdid me in more ways than one. Most people. Most people. Yeah, most people. Again, what's the show? It's Talking Real Money. I'm Don. That's Tom. We talk uh, well, money with you. And you are invited to participate in the program anytime. Just go to talkingrealmoney.com and and send in your questions, your ideas, your thoughts, your opinions, whatever. Just send them in there. Don't don't go to there's a guy on Apple who listens on Apple Podcasts and he keeps writing the same review every two weeks. And I I think Apple's have now finally shut it down. I don't see it anymore. It's the guy, the guy who thinks we're totally off base with crypto over and over and over and over and over again. But you know, send us your ideas at talkingrealmoney.com on the contact form, and we can we can actually have a conversation about them if you'd like. We'll get in touch with you and have a talk with you. We will uh get you in. Uh even if your ideas totally conflict with ours. As a matter of fact, you move to the top of the list.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Yeah, no, we take every question. We we answer every question. There's one coming up on um on on how we help people. So I it's you know, we help people.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Today's topic, though. People becoming parents a little bit later in life. Now, in less than polite company, they might call that robbing the cradle, but uh it's in Tom's case, she she was fully grown. She was an adult when he married her. And you know, uh the special financial challenges that come with having a kid as you're approaching retirement. And and I can see why there would be some, because now you're getting into, you know, when you get into your 50s, you're really looking 15, 20 years down the road and going, am I going to be able to comfortably pay for my retirement? You luckily did well in business and and will probably be pretty comfortable, but not everybody is, and there are a lot of financial challenges to becoming a parent later in life.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Yeah, it and this is a a bigger deal than you might think. It women 40 and older accounted for 4.3 percent of U.S. births in 2025, so 4 percent. That's up from 1.2 percent in 1990. So 35 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Yeah, but how many fathers 50 and older? I want to know. They don't give that number. They don't give that number.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

The average first-time mother, 27.5. That's a record high. So, and you can be pretty sure that the men are getting older too. So uh, but and this is more about them. And just for full disclosure, okay, because we we put everything out there, I'll just I'll just I'll just put it out there. I had a child of 50 who uh who just this recently uh graduated from high school. So you can do the math, figure out how old I am. That was pretty she didn't graduate early, so uh and she uh yeah she she went to private school for the last uh eight or nine of those years, so it has not been inexpensive.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Over her 18 years of life. How many times have you been mistaken for her granddad, Tom?

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Well, you know, that's early, early on, many times, fascinatingly enough, when she was a baby, people say, Oh, it's so nice you got your granddad. No, that's my daughter. But just recently, it would not surprise you to know that I have a routine that includes going to the grocery store at seven o'clock in the morning on Sunday mornings.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Yeah, time that no one, no one goes to the grocery store.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

It started with COVID because I just wanted to go then get it out of the way. But it just sort of kept. I mean, this is how my life works. I get in ruts. And uh so there, I got guess what? I get to know the people that are every Sunday at seven, the people that work there, including my favorite uh vegetable stalker. Is that the right word? I would just call him green grocer.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

The the guy in the vet in the produce department, your produce produce guy. Produce guy. Yeah, produce guy.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

He always stops and we chatted up for a couple of minutes. Well, a couple weeks ago, my daughter came with me, which she never does. I can't remember the occasion, but and it was 9 a.m. He's like, Are you okay? You're really late. What's what's what's the deal? And I pointed at my daughter, said, Oh, it's her. He goes, Oh, you brought your granddaughter.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Your 18-year-old granddaughter.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

And I said, No, that would be my daughter. He felt so in fact, he felt so bad that this week when I was there, he goes, I still feel I said, just it it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

He's used to it by now.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

The hair color effects.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Have you listened to his podcast?

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

He's used to it by now.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

You know, all in so yeah, okay, I've taken the slings and arrows. But I will, on the other side of that equation, I will say this time with my daughter, I don't know if it was her maturity or mine, but it was the easy, she's been the easiest child to raise.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Um, right. I, having known you since you had tiny children, yes. From your first marriage, uh, it's the maturity of you, sir. It had nothing to do with her. Okay. You're you've changed a lot. You have one thing about getting old, and this is not financial, but it does impact our finances, is that generally speaking, if we paid a modicum of attention along the way, we mellow as we age a bit.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Oh, is that what I've done? I've mellowed now.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

You've you've gained some wisdom and some and some weight.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

And some that was too easy. I had that.

Late-Life Kids Costs

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Okay, but let's go. This is fascinating. So the the Wall Street Journal did a a full I this how many words this? I don't know, like 9,000 or something. Big article on older parents encountering new financial costs. So I'm always fascinated because I'm part of that group, right? I mean, I had kids. So here's a guy that they have in here. Um he's 58. He had a child when he was 50, right? So that sounds familiar. Um, and it the his lead-in is I don't know what my retirement picture looks like now. It's totally up in the air. But in the article, he says in the first year of parenthood, he put $75,000 into a $529 savings plan.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

I immediately know what's wrong with your future, sir. You did the thing that we have been advising against for as long as we've been doing this show, and that that is prioritizing your kids' college over your retirement. It should be the other way around. Totally. Why? Why should it be the other way around?

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Well, because uh this is a very simple adage, and I think it works. You can borrow money to pay for college. You can't borrow money for retirement. At the end of the day, you can't answer that.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

And let me just share with you a little factoid. Most kids are gonna do just as well in careers from a uh with a degree from a state school that tend to be, if you're in state, a lot cheaper than a an expensive private school. So if you can afford it, yeah, but don't hurt your future so you can send your kids to an Ivy League school.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

I think that's totally legit. Uh, and here's another thing. He this is an area that that is costly because I still have some some life insurance. So he went out to he had a health problem. He tried to go out and get life insurance for a million-dollar whole life policy. He was quoted $36,000 a year. That's a lot of money for life insurance.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Okay, whole life is building cash value, too.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

So um he's now considering a 20-year term policy that uh would would only uh $300,000 would be $170 a month. I urge him to take that option.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Is this guy a regular guy or is this a finance writer for the Wall Street Journal?

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Regular guy. Um lives in Texas.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Okay, thank gosh. So I I can advise him a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Well, let me finish, then you can give the full he's also trying to figure out what what it do about his social security because he says if I take it at sixty-two, I'm gonna get twelve hundred dollars a month.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Don't take it at sixty two, you big dope.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

So this

College Before Retirement

SPEAKER_00 8:52

is all doopy. That's what I said. It's just crazy.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

I want to go back to the insurance though. I want to grab these by the the the the the individual bits, because you can't really focus on the big picture. You gotta get the little bits out of the way. His daughter is how old now?

SPEAKER_00 9:08

It's his son, so that would be let's see, so eight.

unknown 9:12

Eight.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

So he's eight years old. Okay. He's gonna graduate high school roughly in ten years, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:18

At about the time he's gonna want to retire, or maybe earlier.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Why would you get a 20-year term policy? Good point. Why would you not get a 10-year term policy?

SPEAKER_00 9:28

A lot cheaper, sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Be a lot cheaper, and it covers the need. You see, what he's doing is he's confusing the need with some sort of a windfall for the kid. And this is a big mistake we make. We want to like, I want to set my kid up wealthy when he's 22 years old. No, you don't. You don't. Would that have done, I mean, okay, you're probably looking back and going, gosh, I wish my parents gave me a lot of money when I was 22. Yeah. Would that have incentivized you to do the things that you've done in life? Those of you who weren't born with the silver spoon, come on.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

No, I think that's practical. Very good advice. I mean, but that's one that was really shocking. Some of these other folks who I would still consider relatively young because they're in their 40s, but they spent what did they spent? 70 to 80,000, one couple, $70,000 to $80,000 for fertility treatments to finally have a child. That's a lot out of pocket. That is a whole lot of money. Um which has set them back, right? Right. Yeah, they didn't have it.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Although when you think about it, think about I mean, really all species of animal, which includes us, we we're we're we're our legacy is propagation.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

All you got.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

It's what you got, because you're gonna be dead. Yeah, they don't last either.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

No, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

So um, president during the Civil War. Oh, somebody already chose that one. Dang it, they got that.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

That didn't work out. So, okay. So but this does raise several, I think I wasn't a huge fan of that article. And again, I just think horrible decision to pile up money in the uh 529. If you have not properly saved for retirement at that point, that makes no sense.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Did the author of the article give any advice or was this just anecdote sharing?

SPEAKER_00 11:21

That's exactly what it was. Yeah, no advice. Um we can give advice, though. Yeah, well, I was just gonna get to that.

Insurance and Retirement First

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Um because again, number one, the priority, I don't care what age you are, needs to be your retirement. Gotta be.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Not your house. No. It's not the car, vacations, it's not the kids' college education. It's not the legacy. I got vacations in. Uh no, it is the future of you, and if you have one, your significant other or spouse. That's what it's all about. It's the hokey pokey in essence.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Yeah. Well, I and it's hard, right? Because emotionally, as you just said, hey, I want to make sure everybody's okay. That and that gets back to the number two, which is the life insurance. I love what you just said about limiting the term of it. How about making if if college is important or whatever, making it 22. Make it to the the age of they'd be done with school. So if something were to happen to you, they pay for it, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Well, no, because the 529's already paid for that.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Well, in that case, but in most people's case, they haven't saved that kind of money in a 529. I don't know what the average savings are.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Again, though, again, we come back to they're 18, you got them through high school, they can take out student loans. They're adults generally in most places at 18. Yep. They can take care of themselves. You do not have a financial legal obligation to them anymore at 18. In most states.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

I'm going to go home and say that today. I hadn't.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Yeah, say I am done. I wash my hands of you.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Too late, she already got a copy of the credit card. Or no, she actually got the credit card, so I'm you know what.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Okay. That goes back. We were talking about how these people weren't particularly bright about their financial decisions. That just hurts all over.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Who gave her the credit card? Yeah. All right. So again, um saving for retirement, got to do that first. Life insurance, I like what you just said. 18 or 22, that's fair. But here's the other part that I think people forget about, which I kind of think I forgot about at 50. Uh you're gonna end up working longer because it's just it's just expensive. You gotta the the costs are still there.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

At least if you have a kid at 50, you pretty much have to figure retirement is no earlier than 68.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Yeah, I think that's right. Um, I had not, and and I and I love my work and I'm glad I'm working, but I had not thought that through. I'll be honest with you. I I think looking back, if I looked at things 20 years ago, I did not think I'd still be working at 68.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Oh, I did.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Yeah. I don't think I would have, I would have, I I think I would have found another interest, another something to do, but um

Working Longer by Necessity

SPEAKER_00 13:55

really okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Wait, let's come back to that because that's another financial point we talk about a lot. You know, what you're gonna do. Seriously, let's just just in your case, my case, what other thing would you have done that you were physically able at 68 to do?

SPEAKER_00 14:13

I wanted to I wanted I've already talked about this. I wanted to be a docent at the air museum, which I just don't think I'm qualified.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

That's a that's a once in a blue moon kind of. You're not gonna do it every time.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Well, it's like once or maybe twice a week. Um I wanted to do I wanted to do something um volunteer-wise with soccer. Which I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Not refereeing, though.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Well, you can't do it to the not I mean, yeah, not forever. Uh just read about a guy who's 74, though, still out hustling. With the exoskeleton. The exoskeleton. Those were a couple of them. I mean, and the other part was frankly, I wanted to, and I don't think it's gonna happen uh because I only do it one day a week. I wanted to be kind of the driver for my grandsons, like take them from here to there. But see, it doesn't work for my schedule today, so I think they're gonna be too old by the time it might.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Buy yourself a little yellow school bus.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Little one? Oh, little ones? I want the big one.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Um the only two kids in the bus.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

You guys are getting the back. Yeah, I said, but this is this the point of the matter is this needs to be considered very thoughtfully because these are major decisions. When you have a child at 50 or even late 40s, that's a big that's going to be a life-changing decision that it might not be if you had a child when you're 30. I'll put it that way.

unknown 15:25

Right?

SPEAKER_01 15:25

And he speaks from experience.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Yeah, no, I uh and by the way, uh all kidding aside, my daughter, whom I love as you know deeply, who just graduated, she was National Honor Society, she National Choral Award, blah, blah, blah, etc. I know I'm gonna brag about her. It's not about me, it's about her. She's going to a very fine college because she really works hard academically.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Wait, read between the lines. A very fine college, expensive.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

That's not even between the lines. That's written over the top of the whole thing. It's expensive, yeah. So anyway, I don't resent any of that.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

No, nor should you. That I mean, she's a great kid.

Listener Portfolio Review

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Uh, we we love questions. It's our favorite part of the podcast, and yet you're kind of letting us down a little. The summer has been a little slow. And those of you who have written questions, well, one of you wrote one that we're gonna get to soon. But it's dang, it's long. You you we don't we don't pay you for these at all. And we certainly don't pay by the word. Uh as a matter of fact, no offense, but your question is going through a heavy edit before we can put it on because we don't have 45 minutes just to read the question.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

That's what it took this morning, by the way.

unknown 16:42

Long.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

It's really long. Anyway, that's okay. We don't mind. We love the questions. Send them in, talkingrealmoney.com, ask a question button, click on that, and uh then either type them for Tom or speak them for me on the Friday podcast. And uh we're gonna we wanna make sure we have a question for every episode, and we never want to fake these questions. They're always real, these actually come from you. Uh so uh we're we're down to right now just one a day to make sure we have enough to get through Tom's lengthy vacation. So go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

I might call you from Rome or maybe Pompeii.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

If it's still there.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Your ears are burning. Can you say that in Pompeii? No, I guess not. Uh let's go to the questions from That's what we were gonna do. Oh, pardon me. Fall River Mills, California.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

I'm a Californian, I don't know the place. Colin writes, hi Don and Tom. I've been listening to the podcast for years and wanted to write in a question and also thank you for helping me understand what investing in the stock market really means. I used to be someone who thought they could read headlines or web uh news websites and be able to predict the stock market. What a fool I was. Hey, good for you for a little self-realization there. With your podcast, I've finally, I think, been able to settle on a portfolio allocation and strategy I'm comfortable with and have learned to become a long-term investor. Dude, you can just end the conversation right there. That's really good. You got it all right.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Congratulations. You're brilliant. You need you don't need anything.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

He's 41, hopes to retire in 19 years. Has 401k of 550,000 and a Roth IRA of 100. The asset allocation for each account is as follows 50% in the F Z R O X, that's a Fidelity Zero fee total U.S. market index. 30% in the F.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Oh, I thought it was invested in copier stock. I thought it was just you know Z Rocks.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Z I L X, that's a Fidelity Zero, International Index Fund, including developed and emerging markets, and 20% in AVUV, which is U.S. small cap value. Yep. First question does this sound like a reasonable portfolio allocation to you? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

There we go.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

See how that was? I mean, that's perfectly fine. Yeah, that's really good. I I currently maintain the 50, remember, 50 in the U.S., 30 international, and 20% U.S. small cap value in both retirement accounts. Remember, one's 550, the other's 100. Rebalancing them separately to maintain the same in each. What are your thoughts on the strategy? The question, third question, or what are your thoughts on that? Having two separate ones. Okay. I mean, because you got the three funds in one, you got three funds in another. Yeah, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Again, for that kind of an account, it's fine. Uh again, the you are, because of AVU V2 in this, you're heavily overweighted U.S.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

I think you should have more international.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

I concur. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

So he could add, by the way, he could add the uh I think Avantis has a Avantis does have a uh let's see. Avantis, what's the international small cap value? Pretty sure they'd be able to get the international value. Is AVDV. It was right on the tip of my tongue. AV.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

So maybe you could split A D V. You could split the AVUV into AVUV and AVDV.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

AVDV. Yep. That would actually be a really smart move. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Uh third question. I've been looking at the portfolio as a whole and having 100% of my 100% AVUV in my Roth and splitting the 401k to make the total still be 50 3020. Since the AVUV has the highest growth potential, having it in a tax-free account might be a good strategy. What are your thoughts about that?

SPEAKER_01 20:14

I'm pretty much with you on everything except the light international exposure.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

So are you okay with him having AVUV most of the Roth in the Roth? Yeah, because the expected growth, as you point out, is the best. Maybe you split that one into A V U V, A V D V D V. And then the other one is the 5030, so you get a little more international.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

And uh really it's uh ass soon, one of these days, you need to start paying attention to your your risk profile.

Brace for Market Drops

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Yeah. Because you've you're there reaches a point, and matter of fact, go take the risk quiz right now at talkingreal money.com because there there reaches a point where I know they're not any fun, but bonds are there just to keep you from being stupid. And we get stupid, we get emotional when when we believe we will not do so. Sometimes the headlines are just so powerful, and a lot of people don't remember the headlines of 2000, 2001, the headlines of 2008. I mean, some of the news magazines had breadline pictures on the covers. It's an emotionally gut-wrenching event sometimes, and you need to be ready for that, prepared for that.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Yep. Uh so yeah, at 41, I'd say within certainly within your forties, maybe consider adding a little bit of fixed income. That's not unreasonable. Yeah. And if you find out that your risk profile is lower, then you should probably add them sooner rather than later. Because who knows what's coming next, right? Three X on SpaceX or something, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

And I'm pretty sure that someday I don't know when. I don't know how bad, but I'm pretty sure that one of these days there's going to be a big market decline in the stock market. And a lot of people, I know for this I know for a fact because I've experienced it along with all of you. I know for a fact that many of you will say, okay, I thought I could handle the stock market going down. I'm wrong. I'm just going to get out because I'm too close to retirement.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Market only goes up. No such thing as a bear market. You know, there was a guy I used to work with who retired early because he said, I don't want to have to coach my clients through another bear market. Because it's hard. It's hard on this side too, trust me.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

It was really, really painful. I I remember uh the one of the most painful was nine eleven. Yeah. When I was on the radio, and then I came back after 9-11 because I was preempted for days uh by round the clock coverage of nine eleven. And then when I came back, the financial show came back, almost every caller was I gotta get out, I gotta get out, war's coming, war's coming, I gotta get out. I said, Did you no what no? Right. You know and the market was.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Okay, that was a joke. That was not me being cynical. That was supposed to be funny, but yeah. Okay. Okay. Got anything else? That's

Get Financial Help

SPEAKER_00 23:24

all I got, man.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

We are just having more fun than we can stand, and we want you to join us at talkingrealmoney.com and of course on the podcasts about five days a week. Uh at talkingrealmoney.com, you can ask us questions. You can also do something that can be very, very, very important to that long-term future you're trying to build, and that is get a little help from somebody. You're a do-it-yourselfer. You build your own portfolio. Good for you. Are you sure you're doing it right? Because funny thing, we we discover a lot of people aren't doing it right, and uh really do need a little nudge to get you off in the right direction. So you might want to meet with one of our fiduciary advisors. Now don't just drive to an office because there are certain advisors and appella who are trained to be the the advisors that we want you to to meet with. People who are gonna provide you with free help, who are not gonna charge, well, nobody's gonna charge you, and are not gonna try to convince you through high pressure tactics to become a client. So you want to make sure you go to talkingrealmoney.com, you'll click you click on the button that says meet an advisor, that'll get you connected with one of the advisors who's a part of our talking real money group, and they will provide you help. I promise. Free, no obligation, no high pressure sales pitch.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

I'll just add to that there's a specific talking real money experience if you go through the website that you will get that includes the free analysis on the portfolio, discussion with advisor, all that. I can't guarantee that if you go somewhere else.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

I mean Appella, even Apella is a big company now.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

When we when we started working with them, it was small. Yeah, now it's gigantic with offices all over the country. And uh so go to talkingrealmoney.com. That keeps you in our little family. Okay? Anything else? That should do it. All right. Thank you all for being a part of the program. Please tell a friend or two. And remember, very few places, very few podcasts, very few resources of any kind out there are actually talking real money.

SPEAKER_02 25:35

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