Mom (Dad) and Money

SPEAKER_00 0:05

You're gonna do a really great fundamental future. Dumb and dummin are talking real money.

Aging Parents Talk

SPEAKER_04 0:12

It's time to have that hard conversation. They're all hard conversations when it comes to money, though, aren't they? I mean, really, they are. But the hard conversation we're talking about is the conversation you need to have with people like us. Your elderly parents. Okay, we're not that elderly yet, but we're heading in that direction. Hi, everybody. Welcome to Talking Real Money the Podcast. Well, okay, that's the only kind of Talking Real Money. Well, no, there's Talking Real Money, the website. So this is Talking Real Money the Podcast. I am Don McDonald, one of the two hosts of this here program. The other one is over there. That's Tom. Cock in Seattle. Well, a bellevue if you want to get particular. And today, today, we're going to talk about your folks getting old. Or you, the folks that are getting old. We got a sum of both of you. We've got the the folks who have old aging parents, and we have a lot of those aged parents. And there reaches a point where you, we, us, all need a little bit of help managing the complexity of our money, our portfolio, our bill paying, and all of that stuff. So today we're going to devote a little time to how to have that conversation and the kinds of things that you uh as the elderly person or you as the child thereof need to discuss and work on going forward.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

It's hard. I mean, so I think and not to make this too personal, and you can say no, but you handle your mom's money, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:54

No, my no. Uh somebody does, right? Well, the appella does.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

No, I mean, but you but you're kind of keeping your hand on the table.

SPEAKER_04 2:02

Oh, I keep an eye on it, but my sister handles the day-to-day stuff because my sister lives in very close proximity to my mom's nursing home.

unknown 2:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:11

So therefore it just makes more sense for her to, you know, deal with the day-to-day bills and all of that.

SPEAKER_03 2:17

I've never had to do that.

SPEAKER_04 2:18

I've aggregated most of that responsibility to my work.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Yeah. I never had my my dad, in you know, his last couple months, uh my mom survived him, so she was handling it. And then she was she could handle everything right up to the time that she died at 85. So I never really have faced this.

SPEAKER_04 2:36

But you know, in those in those situations where there is uh serious debilitative conditions, and the the biggest one in in old age is some sort of dementia. Uh there it's important to have a plan, even if it never gets put into effect.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Trevor Burrus, Jr. Yeah, and that's the hard part. I uh the discussion I can and I can remember taking the car keys from my mom. That was not fun. Uh because that's the same thing.

SPEAKER_04 3:05

Well, yeah, I remember Deb's family taking the car keys from her dad.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

That's you know, that's a hard conversation. Hey, you might kill somebody. I mean, you don't want to be you don't want to be doing that,

Open the Money Books

SPEAKER_03 3:16

right? Uh hey, you might blow something with your money. So I one of the things that that I have agreed with all the time is once you put together a plan, and I'd say over the age of 65, this is a good time to have the discussion with your kids. Hey, here's where we are, right? Here's the money that we have, here's how much we're spending. I know a lot of people want to keep us a big mystery and it's in the closet, nobody can figure it out, but aren't we kind of past that now? Um, chatting with the kids or you chatting with the kids.

SPEAKER_04 3:45

It was the very greatest generation money.

SPEAKER_03 3:47

I think it was. Yeah. My mom, right up to the end, didn't want to tell the other I knew about her money because I was managing it. But she didn't want to tell everybody about it because that's a private matter. Well, yeah, kinda. Um so I think having that discussion early makes a lot more sense. They don't have to tell you every detail of it, but kind of generally, here's what we're doing, here's how we're paying the bills, here's what we've saved, here's where it is. Those things should be done. Oh boy, I hate to can I say 70? I hate to say somewhere around that that time because you don't know.

SPEAKER_04 4:20

Okay, I'm gonna say 80.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

Okay, I figured you'd push that number.

SPEAKER_04 4:23

I'm gonna say eight. Well, and you know, when you when you look around at the I mean, I know my mom, my stepdad were both very, very capable uh up into their eighties, early eighties. You know, that was when the the help was necessary. Uh prior to that, they were really sharp. They were very sharp. And that's most important.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

Because when when that day arrives, it there's not always the notice prior to, that's all.

SPEAKER_04 4:52

And and well, and here are a few things you might be able to do, you know, before before you get too deep into it. One of the things you might want to do is just have a better understanding of their situation, their costs of living, and what those resources might be before you actually get in and take charge.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Yeah, I think that's fair. Uh, you know, I guess you're right. Understanding the budget, understanding the income, the bills, the various accounts, just kind of have an idea where all that is, what it all means before you get to

Passwords and Access Plans

SPEAKER_03 5:27

the time, and this is the tough one, um, where you're asking for access to the accounts, right? Where you're saying, I really should have the logins in case something happened. I should really know how this all fits together so that I'm there for you if you need me.

SPEAKER_04 5:42

Yeah, and I gotta tell you, that's an area where um you've got at in this day and age, you need to have, you need to have technical, Tom, I'm looking at you. Yes. Technical savvy when it comes to this. Because what does that mean exactly? Well, like uh it it more and more people have all of their accounts online. You don't do anything through the mail anymore. Therefore, there are a lot of logins and passwords for all of these various accounts, and it can be very dangerous to keep them written down in your house. That's true. Unless it's you know hidden away. Now, the good news is that most major operating, particularly Apple's operating system, has a very robust password storage system. So that the only thing you really need to know is the master password for the primary computer or or tablet or phone. Because then that can get you into the whole password universe on the device.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

Sure, you just helped all the criminals help out. Come on.

SPEAKER_04 6:43

No, no, no, because you just uh you w you gotta keep that that one password under lock and key. Uh in fact in fact, you should memorize that password.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

Yeah. That's true. Memorize I've given it to my wife.

SPEAKER_04 7:00

Yeah, but don't you know you know who I found is a better I I've already talked to my daughter about this and I I've given her the main password to my computer. Wow. So that she, if something happened to both of us, she could get into the computer and through the password app on the computer access all of the accounts and make sure that you know she can log into pretty much everything.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

That is a huge step for trust for you. Did you did you get a lot of counseling for that? Did your therapist help you through that? That's a big deal. No, I you know, I trust Tori. That's good for you. So okay, so start talking early, understanding the situation, getting account

Secure the Power of Attorney

SPEAKER_03 7:40

access. And then this is one that uh I think people have a tendency to not think about until it's too late, and that is getting a durable power of attorney. Now, that can cover a lot of things, right? That can cover healthcare, it can cover financial, but here's something in addition to getting that that I think is absolutely 100% critical that most people overlook. Sometimes they get it, but then they don't wait and to use it until the moment arrives, and then they take it to the custodian, for example, in this case, our friends at Cheryl Schwab, and they say, here's this power of a financial power of attorney, and Schwab's attorneys, of which there are legion, look at it and go, nah, that's not that that doesn't work because of this or this or this. Here's a suggestion. Once you're at this point and you get that POA, you should immediately take it to the custodian and say, is this going to work? Are you going to accept this? Done this many times with people, so that you do know that it'll work when that time comes when you do need to intercede in those accounts. Don't forget that step.

SPEAKER_04 8:42

Yeah, and don't forget the other step of uh, you know, this is where, for example, you know, all of my assets uh uh go to my wife if they're not enjoying the same.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_04 8:51

I'm not already anything after years of all the time. You know, because you're way ahead of me.

SPEAKER_03 8:55

I see, because I have more than you? Yeah, it's all about you having more.

SPEAKER_04 8:59

It is a reason.

unknown 9:00

Okay, fair enough.

SPEAKER_04 9:01

So uh but but what if both of you go?

SPEAKER_03 9:05

Oh.

unknown 9:06

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 9:07

You gotta have backups, and that's the same with the POA, with the durable power of attorney. Um what if your power, you the person to whom you give that power of attorney, they die? You gotta have backups. Backups and backups and backups and backups.

SPEAKER_03 9:23

And that brings me to the very important point is uh once you have that POA, once you have the backups, you really got to verify wills, beneficiaries, make sure all of those everybody's correct. By the way, there have been cases, as you know, of you know, ex-wives receiving 401ks because they oh you forgot to be able to do that. Oh, yeah, because the beneficiaries aren't up to date.

SPEAKER_04 9:43

In fact, Debbie and I were talking about this the other day. She goes, wait a minute. I don't think you're the beneficiary on one of my IRAs. I think I haven't changed it in like 20 years. Yeah, that's something. And I went, wait a minute, we've been married for 35 years.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

Oh, there might have been something else in somebody.

SPEAKER_04 9:58

Anyway, it's her brother from back when she was young.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

It's a different show.

Update Wills and Beneficiaries

SPEAKER_03 10:02

Um, but that's really important. I I'll add something else to all this too. And this is something that that we do well. We just had a meeting recently with a mother-daughter situation. And um, if if if the elderly, can I say that person has an advisor, you should meet them somewhere along the way. You should talk to them and think of that thing.

SPEAKER_04 10:23

By the way, if you're not and this is going to be the case in a lot of situations, if you're not comfortable involving your children in this process, and I can understand why you would be uncomfortable in some cases. You know, you hear horror stories, then they're real. This is another important reason to have not only the legal advisor for the Wills and Trusts or whatever you're doing there, but to have the money advisor because you you can designate your financial advisor as the one who handles your financial needs after you pass and then refer them, have them start working for your heirs uh upon your passing. That it there there that's a powerful, powerful resource because you have a fiduciary, or at least we hope you have a fiduciary third party who is looking out for your best interests after you're passing your family's best interests.

SPEAKER_03 11:28

Yeah, that's a relationship that should be cemented,

Bring in the Family Advisor

SPEAKER_03 11:31

should be secure. I'll add a couple other things here that I've seen in the experience. By the way, I just had a wonderful chat with uh a young man who's not quite 30, his father in his 60s. Uh the young man's the podcast listener, and he wanted us to look at his dad's portfolio, and uh we suggested a few changes. But I love that. I mean, it's hey dad, you've been a great saver, but uh, you might want to fix this part of the uh the holdings here. It was wonderful. But here's what I would say for people that the child don't expect too much too soon. This should be a process. It's gonna take, pardon me, this is gonna take time, right? You may have to have several conversations with people before they're gonna say, okay, I'll I'll I'll let you do this. You may have to say, you know what, you don't want to do it today, but let's can we check in in six months? I it may just take time. It's it's a it's like taking away the car keys. This is a major thing. Um, that's one. And then the other one that I see oftentimes, because you're in a portfolio, the young person that is mostly in stocks, don't project that onto the parent. I I see this all the time. Well, why why do they hold bonds? Why do they have any because they're 80 years old and they might not want to see their account go up and down dramatically the way yours does. Because it's harder when you get it's a I'm telling you, you get older hanging on there.

SPEAKER_04 12:49

What brings me though, that that brings me back again to my one of my big concerns uh is the problem. And you just you just touched it right there. Why don't you have more stocks? Often the reason why they want more stocks is because they see this as their portfolio when mom and dad go and they want it to grow more for them. There's a greed factor, and greed rears its flipping ugly head far more than it should in these situations where heirs go, uh, how soon are you dying?

SPEAKER_03 13:28

Sad. But true. Sad, but true. It is. It happens, it

Avoid Heirs' Greed

SPEAKER_03 13:32

happens. So these are this is a this is a understated and yet huge uh area of discussion, area of concern. We we got this idea from an article in the New York Times, which would be great to read if you can read the New York Times about this, because I thought it was a well-done article. But um this should be at the high point of your list if you have parents that are that are getting older, because uh a lot of mistakes, a lot of problems, people die, they don't have the right beneficiaries, they don't have things set up, and um it it can be a real problem. And so you really want to work ahead to try and avoid it

Listener Questions Begin

SPEAKER_03 14:06

if you can.

SPEAKER_04 14:06

And if you have questions about those kinds of issues in your life, about planning for your future, about you know, working with your kids, about getting a better plan going forward, well, ask us. We're here to answer questions. It's what we like to do. And we do it two different ways. We do it, uh it's all through talkingrealmoney.com, and you just hit the ask a question button, but you can type your questions in. Tom either reads them or gets in touch with you, or you can speak them into the little microphone button, and then I do those on the Friday QA podcast. But Tom's got a couple that he's gonna read to me today that I have not heard. These are fresh. Hermetically sealed. I don't know the answers to these questions. That's true. He does not. And I am not psychic, so I'm not gonna try and guess.

SPEAKER_03 14:55

Yeah, this comes from Winter Haven, Florida. Oh, Winter Haven, that's just a couple miles from my house.

Fire the Bad Advisor

SPEAKER_03 15:02

It's time to let go of a wealth manager from Canson who writes us My wife and I are both retired in our early 50s, living abroad and paying 1% assets under management to a registered investment advisor. Wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_04 15:16

Did they say they were in Winter Haven?

SPEAKER_03 15:18

Yeah. That is not living abroad.

SPEAKER_04 15:20

I mean, I know it feels like a whole nother country.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

Uh so they're how's your Spanish? Is it good? Is it how you do it? Malo. Okay, so back to where I was, paying one percent to a RIA for the past five years. When I started asking deeper questions about why specific funds were chosen, including two with expense ratios above one percent. Oh, holy moly. My advisor deflected, never responded to those sections of my emails, couldn't explain the fund selection criteria his firm uses, and had no defined exit plan for any position. When I pushed further, he told me that if I continue asking these kind of questions, he would have to raise his fee. When I first read it, I thought, come on. Um my question.

SPEAKER_04 16:17

If I have to actually work for you, I'm gonna charge you more.

SPEAKER_03 16:20

A lot more. Um my question. How common is this behavior among financial advisors? And at what point does deflecting a client's legitimate investment questions cross the line from a communication style into a breach of fiduciary duty? Uh he's he's there. I do at 1% plus 1%?

SPEAKER_04 16:40

1% plus 1%, he's definitely there. And and the and the deflection cracks me up. A good advisor should be not just eager, but happy. And and and and know exactly why those the the they recommend the products they recommend. Why were you doing this for gosh sake? I I could I could do it with every single product Apella suggests. I could give you a perfect rationale for every one of them. But the funny thing is, is that all of the ETFs we suggest in in aggregate are are gonna cost you like less than 30 basis points. No, it's not in a portfolio, it's more like 18. Yeah, but I mean, low. I mean, but yeah, if you're all equity, it could be a little higher.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

But not much higher. Not much.

SPEAKER_04 17:34

No, this is this is a bad advisor. Well, no, this is a bad advisor. There's a reason for that.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

Yeah, and saying they're gonna raise their fee if you keep asking me questions. You got another question.

SPEAKER_04 17:48

That's no. I would say you don't answer my question, you're fired.

unknown 17:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:54

Don't you and my man? Don't you dare threaten me. That's what that I would be indignant.

SPEAKER_03 18:03

And uh by the way, Canson, there's better advisors than that in Winter Park.

SPEAKER_04 18:07

Not in Winter Haven. Winter Haven isn't. Winter Park, yes. In Winter Park, yes. Not in Winter Haven. You don't get the difference. I don't know. Winter Park is a very highfalutin area.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

And Winter Haven is not, then I take it.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

Winter Haven is a little more rural.

SPEAKER_03 18:26

You're gonna know this better than I am.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

Winter Haven is where Legoland is.

SPEAKER_03 18:31

I kind of like Legos.

SPEAKER_04 18:33

It's the yeah, but it's the secondary theme park. Peppa Pig Land is down there.

unknown 18:37

Peppa Pig Land.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

Well, I never missed that when I'm in Florida. So uh okay. You don't know what to do. That that's a that's an immediate fire and find a new advisor.

SPEAKER_04 18:46

I'm done. I am I am so done with this advisor. Done. Done. Goodbye,

New Financial Career Paths

SPEAKER_04 18:51

advisor.

SPEAKER_03 18:51

Very strange. Lucas from Charlotte, North Carolina writes Hi, Don and Tom. I was calling to get your take on other relevant roles in the financial planning industry other than someone who deals with investment planning or retirement planning, like a CFP or chartered financial consultant or analyst. I've heard of other tracks that include financial counseling, uh, getting your AFC or something like financial coaching. Curious on your thoughts of how these operate in the industry, not necessarily from a compensation perspective, but maybe how you have interacted with some of these professionals in the past. I've been kicking around the idea of getting into the financial services industry as a career pivot and think something like this may be better suited for me than a CFP. Thanks, love the show. P.S. I've tried there's a message about having trouble listening to the podcast, which apparently you managed to do. But um, yeah, I mean, sort of being a counselor rather than an advisor, I guess, in some ways. Um, there's all kinds, by the way, because the industry has changed dramatically in the last 20 years. So there's all kinds of different advisors now. And there's big firms that have different layers, right? They may have an advisor that is designed to be the rainmaker in some way, bringing the money in, somebody who's gonna manage the very inside baseball term. Yeah, that is kind of so uh sorry, pardon me. They're gonna they're bringing on new clients. There might be an advisor that does the legwork on all that and is the daily contact. Um, and there's places that have sort of advisory roles that aren't necessarily a CFP. That they exist. It's it's a smaller part of the industry. There's big firms that have those kind of people on board.

SPEAKER_04 20:30

Okay, here's we run into a lot of potential issues with this because of the way this industry is regulated. Technically, if you provide any kind of investing advice for a fee, for any kind of a fee, you are required to register with either your state regulators or with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

Yeah, no argument there.

SPEAKER_04 20:59

You have to register as an investment advisor representative. That's right. You have to. You can hold if you hold yourself out to be some you could do it and maybe never get caught. But technically, to accept a fee for financial advice that involves investments in any way, shape, manner, or form technically, you need to be an RIA or an IAR. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

Well, okay, or unless you're a broker dealer.

SPEAKER_04 21:32

But unless you're a broker dealer, but that's you know that's that's not I see what I think this person's getting at is that I don't want to manage money. I just want to provide advice.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

I don't think I'm getting more into the psychology of it.

SPEAKER_04 21:47

Yeah, but I don't believe there's a huge demand No, not huge. For paid advice because you've got it's another level of it's another layer of payment.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

I know major there's a major firm right across the water that has people like this on Facebook.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

Absolutely. Absolutely. But but I I can I can assure you that the people who are being hired in these positions with these big firms are uh are PhD psychologists.

SPEAKER_03 22:11

Maybe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:13

I mean they're not they're they're not just somebody who has some pretty good ideas about this. They they have advanced degrees in psychology of some sort.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

But my question to you, Lucas, would be the why of it. I mean, tell me, I'd have to know more about what you're trying to accomplish here. Why would you have to do that?

SPEAKER_04 22:29

This would have been a good call for you to make.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

I knew I was gonna take the take the heat for this. Yeah, because it it because it is it a numbers thing? Look, I don't want to be involved in the numbers. Well, most of the advisors, they know the numbers, but that's not their daily, they're not managing the numbers. Number two, you want to be just writing plans? There's people that, you know, we're just hiring a new paraplanner now. They're gonna sit around and write plans. They're gonna work with the advisors and write plans.

SPEAKER_04 22:52

Yeah, it depends on what side, but I'm hearing the I want to be the touchy-feely person.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

Yeah. And there's the touchy feel.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

The touchy-feely people in the industry these days tend to be those who establish client relationships, don't actually manage the money. Uh they're the relationship people, and you gotta be one heck of a people person, and it helps I hate to say this, even in a fiduciary relationship, because of the skill set that this training brings, it helps to be a good salesperson.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

Oh, yeah. You that's the start, right? You've got to be able to deal with all kinds of things.

SPEAKER_04 23:30

Because good salespeople are really good with people. That's their skill set. So um it just really depends on what you're looking for. So uh this in the future, Tom, if you get one of these where you go, I need to ask him another question. That's the phone call.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Lucas, can I get you on the phone right now? Would that be possible? Can you ring me up?

SPEAKER_04 23:52

Yeah, I I I but I'm I'm reading between the lines. I don't it doesn't sound like he's we get we get two kinds of people generally uh asking about working in this industry. The majority are number crunchers, they're data fiends.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 24:08

They love numbers, they love data, they love they would be great at building portfolios.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

That's right. And those people exist in our building.

SPEAKER_04 24:17

Particularly great at building relationships.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

And those jobs exist too. They're different, they're different than being in advice.

SPEAKER_04 24:24

And we're seeing uh a bifurcation or a trifurcation of jobs a little bit in the industry, where you're seeing now the planners, the paraplanners, the people who do the planning work. You see the uh the relationship people in the industry. This is where Tom is really good. This is really this is Tom's skill set. My skill set was killing trees. It's not data, it's not data crunching. You are not the guy who sits there with spreadsheets. I don't know that you even know how to use a spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_03 24:54

Oh, I do. I have I just updated mine for the end of the uh first half of the year.

SPEAKER_04 25:00

Okay, but could you do like a really complex one?

SPEAKER_03 25:03

No. No, I don't know. You mean like 2% of this is three percent of this?

SPEAKER_04 25:06

Yeah, exactly. No, no, no. Couldn't do that. You can do it as a layout tool. Which is one of the things I hate about the way we use spreadsheets in this world. People use spreadsheets as presentation layout tools. Yeah, absolutely. It's like, no, that's not what they're for. Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should. Okay? Remember? Different tools for different jobs.

Find an Advisor Wisely

SPEAKER_04 25:36

Thank you.

unknown 25:38

All right.

SPEAKER_04 25:38

I think that's a good question. Got questions? Go to talkingrealmoney.com. It's that's it. Got questions? Go to talkingrealmoney.com. Got bigger questions where you'd like to sit down with somebody like a personable Tom person who doesn't crunch numbers well. He'll get someone else to crunch the numbers, trust me.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:56

Before the meeting. I got people they like to say. He has people who do this for him. Uh you just go to talkingrealmoney.com and you say, you know, I'd like to meet with an advisor, but don't charge me anything, and I don't want any high-pressure sales pitch. You don't even have to say that. It's implied. That is not gonna happen. Got it? Good. TalkingRealMoney.com, it's the place to go. Send in those questions. It's summer. Always the lighter season for questions. Uh and uh oh, by the way, I think this is airing like right about the time Tom's on vacation. So thank God. Cut him some slack. I think yeah, I think you're gone already.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

I'm gonna keep reading them on the show.

SPEAKER_04 26:36

Even while we're recording this, I think you're gone.

SPEAKER_03 26:39

That's a good point. He's already out.

SPEAKER_04 26:42

He's already gone. Thanks for listening. We appreciate you. Please tell friends, acquaintances, neighbors people you don't even like that much, because come on, everybody needs to be talking real money.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

The opinions and views expressed on this podcast were current on the date recorded. Opinions, estimates, forecasts, and statements of financial market trends that are based on current market conditions constitute our judgment and are subject to change without notice, including any forward-looking estimates or statements which are based on certain expectations and assumptions.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

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SPEAKER_02 27:17

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SPEAKER_01 27:50

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SPEAKER_02 27:55

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