What is Risk?

SPEAKER_00 0:05

You're gonna do a really great financial future. Tom and Don are talking real money.

SPEAKER_03 0:11

You guys should just be here for the pregame. I should just hit the record button for the pregame show. Because uh the what the stuff that goes on that we talk about before the show, we like argue, just and and you know, it would make the perfect pilot for two white guys waiting around to die. My idea for it more for our next podcast. Two old, it's gotta be two old white guys waiting around to die.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

I'm sure there's a lot of people just sitting around waiting for that show to be rolled out any moment.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

And and the and the but the thing about that show is that it would have to occasionally occasionally have that little Apple E brand legitimately attached to it. But one of these days, one of these days without telling Tom, I'm just gonna hit the record button, and I don't know what I'm gonna do with it,

Pre-Show Banter

SPEAKER_03 1:02

but it won't be on this channel. Wait a minute. Maybe we can get people to to pay for that podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Oh, yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

The insights for this one. Yeah. In fact, we even took the commercials away, and nobody said a thing. Like, I know. So we thank you for taking away the talking real money commercials. We took them away. We went, you know what? It's not, it's incremental dollars, and it's annoying. You know, it's just annoying. It's not there is very little money to be made in podcast advertising for your typical and we're a top 1% podcast. I know. Top 1%. My talk my lit reading podcast is top 10% of all podcasts. You know what that makes a month? Is this the partial penny thing which you're still trying to do? No, that lit reading makes a little more than than than the than Amazon books. Uh it makes about $200 a month.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Hey, look, $200 a month. $200 a month. It pays uh one eighth of the heating bill in the summer or something.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

I gotta tell you, I'm making less than minimum wage putting that podcast together.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

Yeah, but it's the it's the glory of having your own.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

No, actually, it's the love of the process. Well, and and for lit reading and and all of my other short story podcasts, it's really truly the love of the storytelling. I get a kick out of telling the story. And uh I I love these stories, which is why I started writing stories, because I was just going, wait a minute, if these old dead guys can do it, I can do it. I'm still alive. Okay, they were alive when they did it. Barely. I'm an old white guy waiting around

Risk and Market Trends

SPEAKER_03 2:39

to die. Welcome to Talking Real Money. Now we get to the money part. Two minutes and thirty seconds in. It's my that's my coaster. It's my gavel. I'm gonna gavel this proceeding to order as we today talk about risk.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Yeah, you're I thought you were gonna gavel me down, so I'm I'm happy to hear that you're not being. I thought there was that was coming. Uh fascinating times in stock and bond markets. We'll get the bonds another day. I think so. Um Goldman Sachs estimated this week that retail trading volumes are up about thirty percent in the last month. Thirty percent. Now, they don't say what they're trading, but they're trading more stocks, more retail, you know, the big names, the media.

SPEAKER_03 3:28

Wait a minute, we're talking about stock trading or just overall trading in security. Stop trading.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Yeah. Stocks. Stock trading.

SPEAKER_03 3:33

Stocks.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

You know, and and and if I was a betting man, you'd you know that I think the the the AI trade is still on?

SPEAKER_03 3:40

I would be betting that most of it's the AI trade. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

There's probably some energy trade, but who knows whether that's legal or not.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Good Lord, let's not go there. You didn't go there. You know what's coming next. I know what's coming next if I go there. Yeah, I can read them too. Um, point eight. But this is um fascinating too. Did I say that out loud? No, you didn't say anything. I didn't say that. Um a fascinating topic because it we watch this fairly closely. You know that, for example, today it's somewhere between one out of two dollars invested is invested in index or index-like products. About half, right? Um 20 years ago, or maybe 25 years now, it was one out of twenty dollars. So think that through a little bit. There's been a significant number of people who have just said, you know what? I'm not trading, I'm not buying actively managed funds, I'm just gonna take what the market is.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

We have been predicting that change for as long as we've been doing this. You know, we we felt that this was the inevitable direction, that indexing and low costs and all of these would eventually, as people learned more, uh, would become more prevalent, and they have. But on the other side, yeah, on the other side. There's always a big fat butt, isn't there?

SPEAKER_02 4:56

I will let you say that. Uh here's the it it to me, there you can still, by the way, you can still index fund investor and and and uh take significant more risk. But uh FINRA, which I I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

I didn't know they're in the financial industry regulatory authority.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

I didn't know they're in the business of publishing reports, but they published one um uh a poll about investor attitudes by age, right? By the age of the people surveyed. So um a third of those surveyed, in the total survey, a third, said they need to take, and they this is a quote, big risks to reach their financial goals. But that rose to 62 percent. So two out of three people for those under the age of 43, some 43 percent of that youthful cohort reported trading options compared to less than 10 percent of those 55 and older. Um this is fascinating to me. The first of all, that people think they need to take a third of people believe they need to take big risks to accomplish their financial goals.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

The devil, though, Tom, is in the details. That's really risk. We agree, you need to take risk to make more that more money than just the safe money rate, which is right around the rate of inflation plus maybe a smidge. That's all you're gonna get, is a smidge. Uh to do that, you've got to take risk. But here's the thing we need to do, and this is the thing we learn, and it's the difference between those younger investors and those 55 plus investors. You learn over time the differences between various types of risk. There's good risk and there's bad risk. There's smart risk and there's dumb risk.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

And when you're young, you tend sorry, you tend to be a little dumber. And you'll, by the way, you'll agree with me when you're older.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

You'll look with you because you won't be here to agree with them.

SPEAKER_03 7:00

Well, you will look you will agree with the things that I said while I was still here. You when you get here, you'll go, God, I was a lot dumber

Smart vs Dumb Risk

SPEAKER_03 7:08

than I thought. And when it comes to the quote, investing that many of these young people are doing, like options, like IPOs, like chasing hot stocks. This is all the kind of risk you take in a casino, or the kind of risk old guys in the movies used to take at the horse track or the dog track, or the kind of risk that people take when they walk into a convenience store and get a strip of scratch-offs. This is dumb risk. This kind of risk is dumb, dumb, dumb risk. Yes, you can win big, but the odds, the odds don't favor it because this kind of risk is a zero or a negative sum game, whereas the kind of risk we're talking about, where you take advantage of returns that the markets have historically delivered over time for very logical, sensible, academically researched reasons, that's that's smart risk.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Yeah. But let's just, out of curiosity, the 43% that reported trading options, how long are the odds what percentage, pardon me, of people that trade options are successful? I think I think we've done it. It's a small number.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Uh I can look it up, but I think it was.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

And while you're doing that, I'll talk about because you you mentioned a few of these, but a few of the things that are not worth the risk haven't paid off. Might. But as you said, it's a gamble. Individual stocks. Um, the odds are stacked against you to pick a company and think it will outperform. And now people in the Northwest are gonna say, No, I bought Microsoft 30 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

I'm very happy for you. It worked out. It could have been Washington Mutual. Um and you're gonna say, well, that's a wild example. No, Dr. Bessenbinder has showed us clearly that only 4% of the stocks are make more than T-bills over the long haul. And some of them end up by the wayside. So individual stocks have not proven worth the risk. Number two, timing markets, right? Moving in and out, buying things, selling things, thinking you see the future, heard something, got to trade something. Timing has not proven worth the risk. Number three, sector bets.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

Boy, this is and right now, so far you're going down in risk, though, with each successive one of these. Okay, well, they're less the first one was the most risky.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

That's true. Because you could lose it all.

unknown 9:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

It could all go away. Uh trading options you mentioned, crypto. People are gonna say, but I've made a lot of money. Okay. Have you?

SPEAKER_03 10:01

Have. That's past tense. Exactly. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

So these are things, and we'll talk about the ones I think are worth taking the risk because you mentioned them slightly. But did you find the percentage of people that definitely did make money?

SPEAKER_03 10:15

It depends on the study. There have been a whole bunch of studies done of all kinds of data from the brokerage firms, and uh the number comes in at around 90% of active options traders lose money.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

And and yet they're half of young people.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Those who make consistent market beating risk-adjusted returns, less than 5%. It is a tiny, tiny risk.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Risk adjusted will take it down a lot.

Worthwhile Portfolio Risks

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Yeah. Um, so those are things not worth the risk. I'll tell you a few that are. And if you're a young person, this really plays to your strength. And all stock portfolio have no fixed income in your portfolio or cash for that matter.

SPEAKER_03 11:00

That's risky. Yeah. But that's smart risk, because there's this is what underpins that. When you own a massively diversified portfolio of stocks, which we prefer, you own a proxy or at least something very similar to the entire global economic output. That's a thing worth betting on, because we know that over the past 2,000 years, the global economy has grown more valuable and by a pretty decent number. If the historical record is to be believed, and it's a historical record because it's historical and recorded.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

Yeah. So it should be not every year.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Not all the time. No, no, no. This is this is an aggregate over a long period of time. The economy today is worth more than the economy of 26 AD.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Yeah. Which is Don being one of the few people can remember the economy then. So um that's one. Number two, and again, this is they're gonna get argued, people are gonna argue, but the academic tilts, owning more small companies, owning more value companies, owning more profitable companies, momentum stocks, things that most of them are fairly, I think, intuitive, but some people wait, those are lousy companies value stocks. Yeah. But we suspect over time that they will grow, their their price will reach what uh what the the actual worth of the company is when you add up all the assets. Um academic tilts, I think, is a very reasonable risk to take. And then here's another one. Um, being more efficient, I'd look this up today. There's about $20 trillion in savings accounts. Most of which, every once in a while, Don's kind enough to look it up. What his bank pays for saving is pretty much.

SPEAKER_03 12:59

I haven't moved because they've they've hung in there.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Yeah, I think they haven't moved from the 0.1, which um if inflation's running.

SPEAKER_03 13:07

Oh, you're talking about my my my Bank of America banking. I think you're talking about my high yield savings.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

No, no, that's still paying three and a half or four. Yeah, okay. So uh but that's not getting to it. Yeah, four. That's another risk worth taking. Making money on all of your money. And you can do it in a high yield savings count. Don just said, between what, three and a half and four percent. You could make it owning bonds, you could make it owning CDs, but doing something because being inefficient, letting that money sit around, the Bank of America is paying you 0.1 and inflation's going up to 3.8. Well, you can run that number and you're not doing well. But that's another risk. Because you could say it's riskier to do, you know, bonds, for example, than having it all in cash, um, because there's some variability of the uh the portfolio. But those would be things the risk I believe is worth taking. The other things, no. There's no track record. In fact, the track record, as we pointed out, is quite the opposite. And so taking more risk, yeah. But as you I think I like the word you use, Don, smart risk makes a ton of sense.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

Yeah. And by the way, just as uh just for all you trivia buffs out there, who were the two major emperors of the two major empires in the world? There were two major empires in the world in twenty six AD. Two major name the name of the two major empires. The two major empires. What were the names of the two major empires? Rome and China, dude.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

China, China, China. China. You always forget how big China was, and then they weren't, now they are again.

SPEAKER_03 14:47

They were huge. This was during the Han Dynasty. They were man. The Emperor of Rome in 26 A.D. was not Caesar. It was not Augustus, it was Tiberius. Oh. Uh-huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

I don't know my classic history that well.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

And then in China. How about China? It was I don't know who was running the place. It was the Han Dynasty. It was Guangwu of Han.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

And the point of all this would be they took a lot of risk, or what's the deal?

SPEAKER_03 15:19

No, it would be like 2,000 years ago, the the economy was smaller than ours, but it's interesting that the two major players are uh basically their two major empires then and two major empires now. Great similarities. Oh, I see where you're getting. Okay. Yeah, anyway, story. Kind of interesting. I just thought it was interesting. 2,000 years later. Anyway. Good. If you don't think it's interesting, then

Ask Questions Online

SPEAKER_03 15:45

change the subject. And you know how you change the subject? You ask us questions. And we have a brand new Talking Real Money website, ladies and gentlemen. Simpler, easier to use. The podcasts are right there on the front page. On the right hand side, all kinds of stuff there. Easy laid out. Anyone can handle this website now. It's so simple. There's less garbage behind the scenes. It's all cleaned up. And right there, you can ask us a question. You just type it in. Or there's a little microphone. It's even easier to speak your question. There's a microphone in the lower right corner. You click that and you record your question. That goes on the Friday podcast. But if you type them, Tom speaks them on the show, or he loves collecting paper. Or he actually, well, he gets on the phone with you. You know, I found these cool pins, these new energy.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Oh, these are nice.

SPEAKER_03 16:50

Well, guess what? This is what's cool about them. I'm going to use them for book signings. They come and thick and wide? Well, and they're really they're really easy to write with and they dry really fast. But they come look at the color of the ink. It's green. Oh. And that one is brown. Brown. Ink. Perfect for signing a Civil War book. You see? I love it. Really nice. All right. Let's go back to it. There you have it. Look at that. Look at how simple that was. And it's, you know, it's so much easier than calling on a Saturday. You don't have to schedule it. It's all easier if you do it this way. Tom takes most of those calls. Once in a while, I'll do

North Carolina Portfolio Question

SPEAKER_03 17:34

one. And then if they if they don't end up being in a conversation, if we don't think they need that much time, then Tom just picks up the paper, reads the question, and we talk about it like we're going to do right now, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Yeah, and this question comes from Hendersonville, North Carolina, Thomas.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

That is right next to Asheville. I love Hendersonville.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

And Thomas, you're going to get if it's Thomas, you're going to get your question answered. You can be pretty sure of that. Says, hey, Don and Tom, greetings from North Carolina. I love the podcast and hope you're both doing well. We are. Thank you for that. I am 58 and recently retired.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

58? Get back to work and be productive, darn it. Come on. What are you going to do? Sit around and you can only enjoy the mountains for so long, you know.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

I have a Boglehead 4 fund portfolio and a 6040. I'm assuming that means 60% stocks, 40% bond, and it has served me well. He gave the tickers VTI, VXUS, VCOBX, and B N DX. Like a lot of folks, the overvaluation and speculation on the growth side of the S P 500 has me concerned as well as inflation. Stop it. Saying the market's uh I know.

SPEAKER_03 18:55

It always this is the problem. It's feelings that get us into trouble.

Add Value to Stocks?

SPEAKER_02 19:00

So I wanted to get your thoughts on two questions since I'm no longer in the accumulation phase. Number one, should I consider adding a value factor in addition to VTI? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:15

Yeah, you should.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

The question would be how to do it and keep your four fund thing. You'd have to add another.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

You wouldn't. You'd have to have a fifth fund. Yeah, yeah. If you're staying with Vanguard.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

So for example, if you just for sake of argument, because with VTI VXUS, again, large index funds meant to hold the whole market, but you're in in our mind would be underweighted to both small and to value. So here's an idea. Yep. So maybe you take of the 60, right now you have the two funds. I don't know how what your division is between U.S. and and international. But if it was my money, I'd put a third in AVU V, a third in VTI, and a third in VXUS.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

Okay. Or if you want to keep the Vanguard. If you want to keep the Vanguard.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Yeah, you go VBR then.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

You just add a fifth fund, you slice a little off of VTI, just a little, because the small cap value is U.S. That's right. And you uh you put in a little, you know, maybe 20% of your equity position goes in of the U.S. equity goes into VBR.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

Yeah. You could do it that way. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

And that gets you value and gets you small because you're underweighted in both of those in this portfolio.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

Number two, in addition to VCOBX, which is a bond fund, I believe.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

Yeah, it's the it's you know, and it's funny, it's uh it's don't use it, but yes. It's like BND. Sounds like it. Um it's the Vanguard Core Bond Fund. How many things they have? Uh this is Vanguard. Vanguard has way too many choices.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

Is this one of those ones going to be relabeled Morningstar Vanguard, etc.? I don't know what to do.

SPEAKER_03 21:00

In addition to that, should he consider adding quality stuff. But it it's basically B D. Yeah. Tips. You got stocks. You see, you've got stocks. You don't really need tips. It's one of the lovely things about stocks is that they have been pretty good inflation hedges. Well, they've been the best. Um because companies raise prices in reaction to rising costs. They respond to those. And that gets built into the prices over time. Remember, it's a longer-term thing, and you can't get caught up in the day-to-day minutiae or the day-to-day feelings. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

Well, I was going to get to that. Because I guess that's the same thing. Because the market's a long-term thing. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: It is. You're looking at the saying, I'm worried about the growth side of the S P 500. Me too. But that doesn't mean I run out and make a move because I don't know what's next. I would be balanced. Between growth and value all the time. I would have exposure to small continually, both U.S.

Cash Alternatives Reviewed

SPEAKER_02 22:05

and international. He also asks, what about a fund like VBIL? Or should he go through Treasury to the United States? That's a short-term T bill.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

Oh gosh, that's a zero to three months. Yeah. Very short. Okay. Yeah. No. Would be no to that. No. And I don't even know what it yields. What is let's look at BBR?

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Oh, but maybe three, three and a quarter.

SPEAKER_03 22:37

Let's look. You can get four on short-term or you know, liquid savings. Where's the current yield? Um 3.58. Okay. 3.58. I'm getting more. I'm getting more in an FDIC insured savings account. A high yield savings account. Why would you want that? It can fluctuate in value a little bit. It won't fluctuate much. But it doesn't do much for you. I have this feeling that sometimes maybe this is the problem. You retired, you're bored, you're overthinking this.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Can't you cut your lawn instead or clean out the garage? No, no.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

Ooh, those sound like terrible things to do. All right. So back to Go drive the Blue Ridge Parkway again for like the 400th time.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

First of all, I love the blo by the way.

SPEAKER_03 23:32

I love the Blue Ridge Parkway. God, it's a great drive. You ever, you know, you've never been there. No, I never have.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Um, first of all, your portfolio's okay the way it is.

SPEAKER_03 23:41

Yeah, it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

But I would fix the equity side. I probably wouldn't mess around with the bond. I don't think either of those funds are a big change. Those are okay. I'd fix the equity side. 6040 sounds good. I mean, the only other thing I'd be worried about at 58, that could be one really long retirement. So I'd want to run the numbers very carefully to make sure you're gonna have the assets.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

That's a long time. I'll tell you, to me, it's not just running the numbers. It's shh. I'm maybe

Writing and Research Stories

SPEAKER_03 24:09

I'm just weird. I got that I meant to ask you this because now I'm I don't know what I would do, I would write. But see, that's not being retired. I I would write more. I would read that.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

And I was gonna ask you that. So because well, uh as you know, I'm closing in on the end of your wonderful book on on the Civil War et al. And um I'm reading it. There's a lot of you have a lot of stuff in there specifically, like about the the town and this has this you know road and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So did how did you research all that? How much time? How much time did you spend on all that? There's a lovely, lovely thing called the internet. I know, but so how much time did you have to spend on all those topics? There's a lot there.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

I've been working on the book for full on for like six months. Okay, I didn't concept for a yeah, yeah. I didn't tell anybody. Here's what my wife was going, you didn't tell me you were doing this, and I went, There's a reason. You know me.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

First of all, you tell your wife to be on Facebook in ten minutes.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

I have No, I have all these ideas. I have all these things that I think I sh I would like to do. And sometimes they're successful, and sometimes they're abject failures. And so in this case, because I didn't want to say, I'm gonna try writing a book, and then it turned out to suck, or I didn't write it, or whatever. I just wanted that to be a quiet failure and I forget about it.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

The book is outstanding. The writing is great, the research is tremendous. That's I was getting to that.

SPEAKER_03 25:35

So I didn't want to I didn't I didn't want to tell you why I was failing. So what I did to make up to make the time. See, that's one of the things about working. Uh if you want to make the time for something, you gotta kind of give something else up. That's why we're not talking as much as we used to.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Okay. That's why we went? That's why we're not talking as much.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

We talk every day, two to three times. Debbie goes, you talk to Tom more than you talk to me.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

I said, well, it's easier. It's those baggage there. Exactly. Uh but the book is great. Um yes, uh for those of you who have any interest in America, in American history, or in Don's great grandfather, which is a very good thing. Well, it's a fictional version of my great grandfather. But I happen to know the backstory. But um it's it's it's it's terrific, really, really good book. So and I've read, as you may people know, a lot of books about history and fiction.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Oh my god, it's all you read, practically.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Yeah, that is all I read. So I've I've read some really good.

SPEAKER_03 26:36

Yeah, it's called The Line Uncrossed. It's at bookstores everywhere. You can also, if you want, uh get a copy of it, uh an ebook copy of it, along with three other stories that kind of go with it. Two other short stories I wrote from that same Line Uncrossed universe. Uh I wrote one about his friend Pollard. Did you have you gotten to Pollard?

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Yeah, we're that's the next chapter, I think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:01

Um so I wrote a story about Pollard and I wrote a story about uh Captain Wirz, the uh commandant of Andersonville. Uh haven't met him yet, but we're right there. Yeah, and I included a s uh a uh a short story by Ambrose Beers that was brutal called Chickamauga. And so I put those in an ebook along with that, so you can get the Line Uncrossed ebook and the three-story ebook that's true for five bucks. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

Yeah.

Advisor Help and Book Promo

SPEAKER_02 27:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

That website's named after me.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Shocker. If you want help with your money issues, I haven't a lot of real issues.

SPEAKER_03 27:40

Go to that new Talking Real Money website. Beautiful. And click on Meet an Advisor. Yeah. Just click on it, and it takes you to a f little form you fill out. And then honest to goodness, this is something we've been doing for over a decade. Two Almost two now. Almost two. Yeah. Uh helping anybody, anybody, anybody, anybody with a you know, look at your portfolio, uh, you know, little like are you on track? Are you gonna be in where you need to be when you retire, or are you there now that you're retired? And we do this truly, truly, truly, truly, truly. It's not one of those fake free consultations where it's just a sales pitch and discussion. It's not that. It's not. It's real, real help. In fact, sometimes Tom does these things. Yep. Probably too often. You should really let some of the other advisors do it, but he likes it. Yeah. So do that. Ask your questions, visit us anytime at talkingrealmoney.com. Listen to the podcast five days a week. Um, what else do we need to tell people? I think that just about covers it, sir. Okay, sir. Yeah. Well, thanks for hanging out with us for a while, and let's hope you do it again, because as I said, we're here almost every day talking real money.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

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