Smart Enough to Know Better

SPEAKER_01 1:44

I love the verse. Suns free or sans free, suns free. Something like ocean don't cost a penny.

Beachside Banter, Then Money Talk

SPEAKER_03 1:50

It's absolutely perfect. And having just exited the beaches in California, it works for me absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Well, I figured it was, you know, we're coming up toward Labor Day, which, you know, uh is the traditional end of Tom's summer holiday season. But of course, there's still the winter season to look forward to.

SPEAKER_03 2:11

Yeah, but the weather, uh, just I love this time of year. You know that.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

So soon the water will be too cold in the lake for you to do your polar bear plunge.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

I will still go in until the last day of summer.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Although he does look a lot like in the depths of winter, he does look a lot like a polar bear plunging in there.

SPEAKER_03 2:28

They keep a distance. Leave him way over there. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Anyway, welcome to Talking Real Money, the show that begins with a jingle that uh will be a surprise almost every week, except for Mondays.

SPEAKER_03 2:41

Don McDonald singers have been busy, and you need to keep listening just for that, if nothing else.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Oh, oh, I have to tell you, and again, this I I mentioned this on one of my Friday Q ⁇ A's, that one of the biggest reasons I'm doing this is I have done a financial talk show for 38 years of some sort or another. 30 financial talk show. That's a long time. And um, in order to keep your host happy, you he must find a way to entertain himself.

SPEAKER_03 3:09

If you hadn't figured that out already.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

So I have learned so much about weird, wacky. Wait till you hear some of the musical genres. There was some sort of Nordic Icelandic, Icelandic, Viking style something or other that I did.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

Roathon?

SPEAKER_01 3:27

I don't know. It's really cool. Um, so I've been just exploring all these cool genres, Asian genres, uh uh uh uh some African genres, Caribbean genres. I got a I got a Tarantella coming up.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

You're covering the bases there.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Anyway, welcome to Talking Real Money, and now it's the money part of the program where we talk about money and try to help you make better decisions. And one of the places where you can do that, and

CEOs Don’t Beat Markets

SPEAKER_01 3:58

this is really important, you need to pay attention. Stop believing you are smarter than the market. A few weeks ago there was a terrific article in Bloomberg entitled Eight Bosses on Their Biggest Money Regret. And let me tell you, some of these are so indicative of our, you know, smart people's belief that smart people know more than dumb people, and that smart people can beat the market. And you know, they they supposedly make better decisions than the rest of us.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

It's it's just not true. No, it's not true. I Bloomberg Business Week wrote the piece, and and I think the first sentence says it all. Among the chief requirements for the people who run companies, we're talking about CEOs here, is the ability to intelligently oversee finances.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

You mean being smarter than the market?

SPEAKER_03 4:56

This is conflate that with yes, having some knowledge about stocks and the future, especially the short-term future. Um yes, many of these CEOs do a great job of building companies, running companies, uh seeing far enough into the future there when it comes to the product that they're they're that they have, the service they provide. They've done a great job with those things, but that has nothing to do with either their personal finances or giving you advice on yours. So the article is eight CEOs reflect on decisions they made and offers they didn't take and that they still regret. So these are financial decisions that they made that they've haunted them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Which is another foolish thing, is to let dumb decisions haunt you. Move on. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 5:43

Yeah, you got to move on. Uh Rick Rosenfield, who founded uh California Pizza Kitchen, he was an attorney, by the way. Oh, I still love California Pizza Kitchen, they were sold sold it to PepsiCo for 94 million, said he made two expensive mistakes. We suddenly had what we felt like was a blank check and we grew faster than our infrastructure systems and leadership could support. This happens a lot in companies, by the way. People don't realize it, but it's tough. Um, and then when they decide PepsiCo decided to get out of the business, they had store closures, layoffs, cost cutting, blah, blah, blah, and most damaging a loss of trust. Um, then they sold share of their publicly traded company to private equity buyers. And they he says they paid too little attention to our own future. Well, that then that happens, right? People they get caught up in the moment and they it looks like it's going to be.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

You're blinded by dollar signs.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

And they think they were in that case. Uh that's kind of an interesting one. Yeah, but that's more of a bad business decision. And that's it's not really a bad investment decision.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

Yep. Uh, Greg, or pardon me, George Sarkis, I'm not familiar with him, uh, says biggest regret was not a bad investment to market downturn. It was scaling before I was truly ready to scale. That's like we just talked about. Hired people, increased payroll faster than I built the systems to support that growth.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Okay, that's just another bad business decision. That's not really a bad money decision.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

No, no. Amy Walker, one of the youngest CEOs of publicly traded company in UK.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

That's UK, right? United Kingdom.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

United Kingdom.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Uh she said, this is absolutely a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Or that's what they just say to when they see uh when they see Charles. They go, UK? UK, UK?

SPEAKER_03 7:23

UK uh she said, here's quoting. I love this. Finally, somebody's on point. When I was in school, there was really no curriculum to support how young people should make money for themselves. I knew next to nothing about investments, tax, anything. The regret is perhaps not learning about that sooner and being able to capitalize on that knowledge. So, what the bottom line to that is, as I said, you could be a very successful operator of a business, a terrific CEO, uh, but you could know nothing about investments, about how to take care of your own money for the long haul, and about providing advice to people because people often conflate success in business with somebody who's going to be successful with money. Those are two very separate things. So I think that was really one of the good ones. She admits that she

Financial Literacy Matters

SPEAKER_03 8:10

didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

And by the way, um we are we're in a period where financial literacy, a personal finance instruction in high school, is becoming more normal. It's back. Yeah. It's it it's not it back it's it's around for the first time. I don't know that it ever ever was here. I know that Florida now has a a financial literacy requirement.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

It's 17 states, I think, that now have requirement.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

But I just checked the latest number as of this month is 30.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

Okay, so but it depends. Sometimes I think they even include Washington in that, but Washington has the approval, but they haven't implemented it because it takes a long time.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

No, Washington isn't on this list. Yeah, so so a lot of states are finally doing this. Now the trick is, and for you as a parent, the trick to test whether this is worthwhile or not is whether they institute the stupid stock picking game. Yeah. If they institute the stock picking game, you need to go to you need to go to the principal and say, this is a gambling course. This isn't a finance course anymore. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

Yeah, that's good. Uh here's another one. JB Aurexia. I don't know him. Um, CEO and president of Savvy Money, which is a credit scored focused financial security.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

It sounds like a savvy money organization.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

He said that it was not exactly a line item, most financial approved. He talks about how to build financial securities and inform decisions about wealth creation, of which he knew none of that. Um money decisions he lives with are ones that I made with my eyes open, even when they didn't pay pan out. Ones that actually can stay with me are the quiet ones. I I think he's he's what he's saying is he made bad decisions, but in his case, he was able to let it go, is what you just said was.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Which is what I said. And the other thing is, okay, we're going to make bad financial decisions. Learn from them. Don't say, oh, well, that was a one-off. I'm going to try it again. Yeah. I failed, but that was a one-off. No, no, no, no. You learn from your decisions. And again, this goes back to I'm really thrilled we're starting to get into some financial literacy courses in high school. It's really important. Now, the next one, the next one, this is a stupid investing decision that that it remains. Oh, I didn't gamble.

Regrets of Missing Big Winners

unknown 10:24

What?

SPEAKER_03 10:24

Yeah, this goes back to 2010. George Morgan Grenville says he didn't buy 588 shares if he was considering in Tesla Inc.'s IPO at a cost of $10,000.

unknown 10:37

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Uh yeah, because it would have been $3.6 million. Come on. Right. Come on. I know. That's just a good one. You know, my wife does this to me.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

She goes, I owned Apple at $19. And I would have been worth I Yeah, but Steve Jobs had just died, and it looked like the company might not make it. Right. Yeah. Okay, yeah. Oh, I didn't get. Oh, my oh, well, it's recently somebody won like, you know, a huge lottery thing. Got a play to win.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

Well, if I I I this was the one I was gonna buy a ticket in.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

No, this is a silly statement. I don't know why he brings it up because there's all kinds of things that you and I could have invested in over the last 40 years that would have made us a lot of money, but we didn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Because we weren't because we didn't want to gamble. Yeah, exactly. That's why. Yeah. So that one really bugged me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

Then there's Mini Minakash Menakshi Lala. I knew I was gonna get this wrong when I read it. I apologize. Minakshi Lala. Yeah, there you go. CEO of Urban STEMs, which is a service that I've used, actually. Um her financial second thought traces back to before

Compounding And Risk Basics

SPEAKER_03 11:44

she arrived there. Before she conserved in the world? Before she was a CEO. She says uh she was too conservative early in my career, focused heavily on saving and minimizing risk instead of fully appreciating the power of compounding growth, not just financially but personally and professionally. Leaving the last two out. This is a pretty big decision. I do see people making mistakes here. They don't understand basic asset allocation. That is, just at the simplest level, how much of your money should be exposed to risky things like stocks, and how much should be in in, and I see it all the time, cash or bonds. And young people oftentimes have this all wrong because they think cat they think cash stocks and bonds are the same thing. They don't understand the difference. And they uh with the stocks that they own, oftentimes they invest that those few stocks go down and they think, well, the stock market doesn't work. I don't want to be investing in this anymore. So you gotta learn the basics. You just said it. You gotta learn them probably in high school so that you have some knowledge so that you when you start to invest, you can understand the volatility, the compounding, all that kind of thing. Most people, not most, but many people do not, I'll put it that way.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

No, actually, I'm gonna I'm gonna go with your first explanation, most pe or your first uh comment. Most people don't, Tom. I I truly do not believe that most people in a majority.

SPEAKER_03 13:07

Yeah, majority fair.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Do not I d they do not understand the the concepts of of investing. We think we do, because we've heard because we've watched a minute of CNBC or we we read a copy of investors. Or somebody told me or some yeah, or some some broker who's selling commission products said, I can, you know, look at this stock I got this guy into and he's made all this money. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's all anecdotal. The the the facts do not support the way we manage money, the the the decisions we make, and that's what this shows. This is just showing that these are some people who've been very successful in business, and yet that success in business does not translate to success in other aspects of your life.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

Nah, that you just stop right there because again, this goes back to, for example, in the greater Seattle area, there was a guy named Paul Allen who passed away a few years ago. He was kind of the co-founder of your football team? He did own the football team. I think he's his trust still does. The deal has not closed for the sale, but he was also kind of the co-founder of this little software company called Microsoft out of Albuquerque, New Mexico, that decided to move back to Seattle. Worked out pretty well. But the joke about 25 years ago, because I can remember it in about 2000, was how to make a billion dollars. It was to give Paul Allen like five billion, because Paul had a lot of money from selling Microsoft stock that he took out and invested it in. I think there was a cable TV company that went bust. There were some other things, sort of speculative things that blew up. He ended up getting into real estate, which did turn out to be a good long-term investment in Seattle. I wonder these days how it is, but you said it

Business Success Isn’t Investing Skill

SPEAKER_03 14:57

right. People conflate success in business with success as investors. And CEOs are, frankly, they're focused on their companies. By the way, the other mistake many CEOs make is that they uh they invest in their own companies. They tend to because they believe in it, right? They're there, they know the company, things are going great, and they are over if they put too much of their own money into it.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

They put too much of their own money into it. Because we also, and this is something we forget uh as people who it are business owners or entrepreneurs, and there are a lot of you listening to us. You have a huge investment in your business anyway. If your business is successful, you don't want to put a lot of your other money in it because of the the concentration risk. You have your time, your truly your most valuable resource, and you invest most of that in your business every day, right? Put the money somewhere else for diversification.

SPEAKER_03 15:56

Yeah, I think that's good advice. There's a guy, by the way, there is a CEO that I think you could follow, whose advice has been good for a long time, and his advice is buy an index fund. Warren that is Warren Buffett. The Oracle of Omaha. Pretty good operator of businesses, too. They've been fairly successful.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Yeah, he's he's run some strange little weird businesses and created behemoths out of them. I mean, you know, an ice cream shore store that exactly. Yeah. You know, uh an insurance company, government employee insurance company. That's what GEICO stands for.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

Geico, sure, yeah, right. Back in the day. So anyway, yeah, this is this is again, there are no gurus. Uh we all want one, right? I want somebody who's gonna tell me just do this, you're gonna be fine. There really aren't any, sorry to say.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

And and there never have been any, and I'm pretty sure there never will be any. Now, we move on to the second important part of our program, and that is addressing the many and varied questions that you sent in knowing that Tom was on vacation. I think you must have sent them in knowing he was on vacation. Miles of paper. Not as many called in that's spoken for the Friday show. So uh still got a you know, I'm a few short there. If you want to hit that mic button in the lower right-hand corner at talkingrealmoney.com, or if you want to send them to Tom and type them, I get it. Just go to talkingrealmoney.com, click ask a question, and then we'll play this little ditty.

SPEAKER_04 17:24

The mail came in with the morning tide. Tom printed them up and reads your question. You get an answer, a thoughtful suggestion.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

And Tom will answer

Catch-Up Saving Questions

SPEAKER_01 17:48

your question.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

Yeah, this is detailed, so I'm gonna just try to get to the gist of it. It's from McKay in Olympia, Washington. Hello, gentlemen, longtime listener and fan. Thank you all you for all you do, the commute uh for your community of listeners. Apparently, not reading, that wouldn't be part of them. Uh, unfortunately, I spent much of my adulthood being young and stupid. I was gonna read that. Oh, me too. Me too.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

I was in that club.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

And didn't start seriously saving for retirement until I was 30. Me either, by the way. Um, I did great and then I gave it all away, and then I started all over again. Um, since then, my wife wants to tell that story again. Please, let's not. Um did we give that? I think I'm I can't tell it anyway on our under some sort of restraining order. My wife and I have tried to become super savers to play catch up for our past mistakes. Then Kay goes into all the holdings 43, he's done pretty well saving. I I there's a couple reasons I did this question. First of all, I asked Kay if he wanted to come on the program to talk about it because it's a question that needs back and forth. No, and he didn't want to do it, which is fine.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

But here's the thing Well, people are radio shy or podcasts.

SPEAKER_03 18:56

No, totally get that. Not not gonna make anybody do that. Um, number two is even in that conversation, this requires a planner, an advisor, because he gets into am I gonna be okay? At 43, God knows who for I mean that's a long time until retirement, one thing. Um, you're looks like you're saving.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

I'm pretty much counting on the world blowing up before that.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

That's not gonna work for you. He talks about Will you be okay?

SPEAKER_01 19:21

No, I'm a pessimist. You might as well just spend it, enjoy it, because you're gonna die soon.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

Target date funds and V O O, which I think is the S P 500.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:29

Um, and by the way, just ran the number again because I have a client event, and we're gonna talk about it. But if you're just in the S P 500 or even a target date fund, almost a third of your money is in seven stocks. You know what some of they are.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

It's really over concentration.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

It is, and properly managed because I looked at our portfolio, not that we're geniuses or smarter than anybody else. We're believers in diversification. Do you know what percentage of our portfolio or 100% stock is in those seven stocks? You don't know. No, I don't know. Yes, 10? Close, 12. That's pretty good. But that's diversity.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

That's because we have so much small in value.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

Yeah, but it's that lessens the risk. So, okay, back to so he says, you know, do we expect to have the home paid off, blah, blah, blah. Did we make up for our past ignorance? Yeah, it sounds like it. You're buying good funds. Do our goals seem plausible based on our current setup? That's harder to say. And again, that would be something that I would want to take up with a planner if you're serious about it.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Um, and if you're that's one of the reasons that's when we started this show, radio show podcast, 15 years ago, one of the biggest issues we we faced at that time was how do we help people with questions like this that cannot they just can't be answered in the short form of a of a radio show or a podcast. And that's when we decided this is an opportunity for one, for our advisors to to give a little help instead of just making money all the time, which they make mu good money, uh, and and uh and and help f folks out. And that's why we started the free, real, true free meetings. So get one of those. Just go to talkingrollmoney.com, click on meet an advisor. There's no sales pitch. Promise.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

And part of that is we boil down your portfolio for you to see how diversified you are, how much you're paying others, how much risk you're taking. It's huge.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

So yeah, take advantage of that. From Lebanon, New Hampshire.

Church Endowment Allocation

SPEAKER_03 21:21

Thomas writes, Hi, Don and Tom. Question regarding our church. Our church recently received $150,000 to establish an endowment. Stipulation is that we cannot withdraw more than two and a half percent of its current balance each year. What would you recommend as an allocation? 60% equities, 40% bonds. Assuming we would withdraw 2.5% per year for various church projects. We have no other endowments, and since we're a church, interest, dividends, cap gains are not a concern. I took the risk quiz for the church and received the 55. Wait a minute, how can you take a risk quiz for a church?

SPEAKER_01 21:58

You put yourself, you put the Church in your place, or you put yourself in the church's place. I'm not sure how that works, but a 55 tells me it's probably about a 50-50%.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

Yeah, okay. But a very uh if you're in a portfolio of 60% stocks, 40% bonds, a withdrawal rate of six of two and a half percent, the money should last for a very long time.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

No, it should last forever plus some.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

Yeah, I I I just said that a very long time.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

So beyond a very long time. Forever.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

No guarantees, checks will not be honored.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Well, we use the word should. That's a that's a wiggle word. I love wiggle words.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. I think a 60-40 is fine for an endowment. Endowments all over the world use a 60-40.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

And you're and yeah, because you're you're restricted to two and a half. I mean, even in the worst year, um you're probably your worst case scenario is a 25% decline in the value, roughly. So you're down with the two and a half, twenty-seven and a half.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

Yeah. So I mean, and by the way, just because it's gonna come up at the client event, I looked at the bonds again last three years. Uh the yields now are running at about 3.7%, and the actual returns are getting close to 4% a year for those three. So it's very typical. Very typical for the fixed income. Very typical.

Rollover IRA Overload

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Uh, Scott from Inman, South Carolina. Hello, gentlemen. Using the term loosely.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Oh, wow. You you meant me, gentleman. Gentleman. I've been listening to your podcast.

SPEAKER_03 23:24

I've been listening for your podcast for a year. I must say it's one of my favorites. Well, thank you. I thoroughly enjoy the straightforward honestry and knowledge honestry and honesty and knowledge you both bring to the show. Time to take a weekend off. I like your opinions on my Schwab rollover IRA. Currently represents 12.5% of my entire portfolio. However, it's holding about 11.5% in cash. Why?

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Well, unless it's emergency money.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

It contains 20 different ETFs, all chosen by my robo advisor. We're gonna get Don all worked up here again about the 20 ETFs. Year to date, okay, here's the problem. Year to date, it's earned 7.4%. Now, he doesn't give us the stock to bond ratio. But a I just looked this up. An all stock portfolio is made about 16%. Um, a balance portfolio is up about 12%. So I don't know why you're seven and a half percent.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Um I would see again, here's one of those where I'd want to see the whole portfolio.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

Yeah, have to see it line by line. Yeah. The question is would it be better to change that to a self-directed rollover and place it in A V G E and a bond fund? Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

No, no, no, no, I mean, come on. Uh the proof is in the pudding that unless this is no, I can't even I can't even imagine what kind of a portfolio you'd have to have to that dramatically underperform a balanced portfolio just to buy the market and probably Bitcoin, you probably got your gold in there or something.

SPEAKER_03 24:53

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

I don't know, but it doesn't sound very good.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

Yeah, he says, I'm married, our overall portfolio is 6040, including international 59, looking to go part-time in three years at age 62. Wait, people you can quit that early? Um I wish you told me that earlier.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Quit telling Tom.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

I my wife might be 57 wants. Yeah. You'd have to send us the portfolio for us to really pick it apart.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Because that return is a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

But it but in a general sense, if you're doing it yourself, an A V G E in a bond fund, probably pretty good. Yeah. Good diversification. We got time for one more. Where are we at on the side? Yeah, no, we're we're fine. We're fine. Okay. We're actually a little under,

Dividends And Rebalancing

SPEAKER_03 25:35

so we're good. Going back to South Carolina, Anderson, South Carolina, Stuart. Hello, I just started listening to your show, and I'm glad it's getting geared toward my age group. My question is, I'm 61 years old. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

It's always been geared to your age group, sir. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

Or ma'am. Planning to retire at 63, contributing the max amount to my traditional IRA through my retirement age. I have a 65% stock, 35% bond portfolio, 47% is in VTI, 18% in VWMI, which I think is their dividend payer. BND is the 35%. I've been reinvesting all dividends back into VTI and VYMI. At my age, should I be reinvesting stock dividends into B and oh I see, taking money, the dividends produced by the stocks and putting it into BND or reinvesting back in. Okay, the problem with doing it that way is you're going to you're going to end up your bond weight is going to be higher than the 35%. What was the fund? I didn't get it. The one's VTI. We know what's no VTI. That's V Y M I. V Y M I. I think that's Vanguard's dividend payer.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Um, yeah, so that's the international high dividend. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

Yeah. I don't, we're not believers in the world.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

I don't like high dividend yield funds, and that's not the way to get an international exposure, really.

SPEAKER_03 26:59

No, you're limiting your exposure completely there. So, and by taking those and paying into the bond fund, you're kind of rebalancing from stocks to bonds. If that's your if that's what you're trying to do, I guess that's okay. Um, but this is not the way we would recommend it, no.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

No, absolutely not. Um and uh again, this is one of those cases where you you might be better off if you're just gonna do that kind of a portfolio. Is uh all of the the the the ETF the stock money should just be in a VT. If you got VTI and the other one, just get VT. That'll give you your international large and small small, of course, overweighted toward large, uh but you're gonna you're just own the market. Quit trying to trick the market.

SPEAKER_03 27:45

Don't take the dividends and put those into the bonds because that is going to rebalance the portfolio in a way that you may not be wanting to do. If you're trying to move from stocks to bonds, my suggestion would be to wait the end of each year, then rebalance, take from the thing that went up, put it in the thing that didn't or went down. But otherwise, no, that's not a good approach.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

All right. I think that brings us to the end of the year. So, Tom, start with the questions. We're done with the information. Uh, we're uh let's see, we could suggest you go to talkingrealmoney.com and ask us more, and um maybe meet with an advisor. Just go to talkingrealmoney.com and click on the button that says meet an advisor because we're here five days a week.

SPEAKER_04 28:30

Talking Real Money.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

The opinions and views expressed on this podcast were current on the date recorded. Opinions, estimates, forecasts, and statements of financial market trends that are based on current market conditions constitute our judgment and are subject to change without notice, including any forward-looking estimates or statements which are based on certain expectations and assumptions. Although information and opinions given have been obtained from or based on sources believed to be reliable, no warranty or representation is made as to their correctness, completeness, or accuracy. Information presented on the podcast is not personalized investment advice from Oppello Wealth. The views and strategies described may not be suitable for everyone. This podcast does not identify all the risks, direct or indirect, or other considerations which might be material to you when entering any financial transaction. The podcast is not trying to get you to buy or sell any financial products or securities. Instead, the program is provided as a public service by Appello Wealth, a fee-only registered investment advisor. See Appello Wealth's ADB Part 2A on our website for information regarding Appello's fees and services. Apello Capital, LLC, DBA Apello Wealth, is an investment advisory firm registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The firm only transacts business in the states where it is properly registered or excluded or exempt from registration requirements. Registration with the SDC or any state securities authority does not imply a certain level of skill or training. Apello does not provide tax or legal advice, and nothing either stated or implied here should be inferred as providing such advice. Thanks for listening, and please visit talkingrealmoney.com for more information and important disclosure related to performance of any specific index or fund quoted in this podcast. And the lawyers get richer.