Selling Slowly

SPEAKER_01 0:05

You're guys to a really great financial future. Tom and Don are talking real money.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

Today's thing is money in slow motion. Hi, everybody. Slow motion money. That's what we're going to talk about today. Slow motion money. Actually, it's slow motion home sales. It's the best analogy I've ever heard for reverse mortgages. Selling your home in slow motion, basically, is what you're doing. Today we're going to talk about reverse mortgages. If you're house rich, cash poor, well, you may want a reverse mortgage these days. I'm Don McDonald. Over there is Tom Cock. This is the Talking Real Money Podcast, and it just doesn't get any better than this when it comes to money talk. It just doesn't. I I'm sorry. I can't. I can no longer be humble. We're the best. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 1:01

Wait, no longer be humble since about 1985 or something. So yeah, that's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

I got my first talk show and I went, wait, I get a talk show? I don't have to. And I'm not. I'm Don. Tom's there. You're there. Thank you for being wherever the heck you are, listening while walking your dog. Apparently lots of you do that, Tom says. He's taking a poll.

SPEAKER_04 1:24

Well, I take a everybody I talk to, they're like, Yeah, I get up every day, I walk my dog, I listen to the podcast. So thank you. Thank you and your dog, both of you. So appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Wait a minute. Either the podcast has gone to the dogs, or what do you take your dog out to do? And you listen to the podcast. What does that say about it?

SPEAKER_05 1:45

I think we can say that. The podcast. Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

Okay. Anyway, today we're going to do something a little different. There is a way for those of you who really haven't saved enough for retirement, but have equity in your home and don't want to leave your home. You like it, but you know, it's a little things are going to get a little tight in retirement. These have been around for a long time, but in the past ten years or so, they've gotten better. And we're talking about, Tom, what? We're talking about I hate saying the word because they're going to hear the same thing. I know it's so negative. It's like the Joe Namath commercials or whatever, whoever it was. Who was it who did those linkers?

SPEAKER_04 2:22

I don't remember who did the reverse mortgage.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

Wasn't Wilford Brimley? He was diabetic stuff.

SPEAKER_04 2:28

Okay, but the numbers are pretty interesting here, actually. Um there's about$35 trillion in home equity in the great United States of America. That's a lot of money that's tied up in your house. That's the difference between the value. Now, of course, the value is only the value the day that somebody gives you the money for the house, right? That's one thing. Minus whatever's owed on it, that's the equity, right? And um So okay, so let's assume, for sake of argument, that 50% of that could be used for a heckum, right?

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Yes, home equity.

SPEAKER_04 3:06

That that's what they're called, right? The technical term for a reverse mortgage.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

I don't know if you're pronouncing it right, but probably.

SPEAKER_04 3:17

Do you know how much is in IRAS and Roth IRAS right now in the United States of America? You're gonna look it up. I do not. No, you just$17 trillion.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Whoa, it matches the retirement. So it really is a retirement asset. It really is. It's a lot of money. So many people are going into retirement with only a few dollars saved. Right. I mean, even$500,000 for most people is gonna be cutting it close in retirement. Social Security and that, if you don't have a pension, you're looking at uh what,$25,000 a year,$20,000 a year that you can really withdraw from that? So you're not living large with a half a million dollars saved, and that's where these reverse mortgages can come in handy. And by the way, the top five spokespeople. Oh, let's for reverse.

SPEAKER_05 4:09

We're not on this to this.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

Yes I yeah, no, the the the late night infomercial guys, number one. God, who is Oh, let's go backward. Let's go backward, okay? Number five. Yes. Jerry Orbach. Jerry Orbach, he's I don't know you. I'm sorry. The law and order stuff, and he played El Gaio in the original Fantastics. Number four. Yes. Some suspicion around him. Robert Wagner.

SPEAKER_04 4:38

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

He's kind of pushed my wife off a boat, go do some infomercial commercial info.

SPEAKER_04 4:43

Is it in his 90s or something?

Smarmy Old Spokesmen

SPEAKER_03 4:45

Yeah. Well, this was years ago. These were the top spokesmen years ago in the old days when reverse mortgages were a little more smarmy. Yeah. Number three. The Fonds himself, Henry Winkler. Really? Yeah. I never saw one of his ads. Sorry, Henry. Oh, and this one's fascinating. Actor. Actor. Law and order actor. And Senator from Tennessee and presidential candidate Fred Thompson. Yeah, and I do remember his ads. Yeah. Number one. Who can forget?

SPEAKER_04 5:22

You said Joe Namus.

SPEAKER_03 5:25

Oh. Tom Sellick, number one infomercial reverse mortgage spokesman. And back in those days, reverse mortgages were the speaking of Robert Wagner, the wild, wild west. That's good, good, good, good tie in there.

SPEAKER_05 5:41

That's really good.

Better-Regulated Reverse Loans

SPEAKER_03 5:41

I mean, they were crazy. Some of the fees were ridiculous. People were losing their houses, all this equity was vanishing. They were badly regulated. Now they're very heavily regulated by the city.

SPEAKER_04 5:54

Okay, but let's just go, but you brought up if you if you go into a conversation, I can almost guarantee this, because I've done it. We've had people come in and they don't have the assets to pay their way through retirement, and they have a lot of home equity, and you tell them you might want to consider a reverse mortgage, they they universally people cringe. Right. Because of the bad rats. No, I could never do that. It's horrible.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

But today they're they're a lot better. You can borrow on a on the value of your house up to$1.2 million of home value. Up to a house valued$1.2 million.

SPEAKER_04 6:31

Okay, but you need to be careful there, but you can only take out about half of the actual.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

Well, it's exactly. It depends on your age. If you take out a re the younger you take out a reverse mortgage, for example, at age 62, which is the youngest you can take out a reverse mortgage, you get no more than about 48% of your home's value before the costs. And there are some costs. We're going to talk about those. Yeah. At age 70, though, that rises to as much as 55 percent. At age 75, that rises to as much as 60 percent of the equity. Of the equivalent. Of the equity, correct. And at age 80, it's 66 percent. The reason for that is the um the risks are lower the older you are, because when you die, they sell the house and they pay themselves back. And what you pay up front, you pay up front for these, two percent of the appraised value of the home. That's the biggest single expense.

SPEAKER_04 7:29

Yeah. Make sure you hear that number of the appraised value of the home, not how much you're borrowing.

unknown 7:36

Right.

SPEAKER_04 7:36

So a million-dollar home. Let's say a million, I was gonna say a million and a half, but okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Let's use a million, because that's a good U.S. average.

SPEAKER_04 7:44

We're not talking about your Seattle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:46

Uh that's twenty thousand dollars right there up front. Then there's an origination fee that can be as high as six thousand. That's right. Closing costs somewhere between two and four. And then, of course, you have to have you have to have an escrow account for taxes and percent? Uh uh No, up to two to four thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_04 8:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

All right. And then uh you have to have a escrow, a set aside for taxes and insurance that you have to refill. Um and the the thing is that on a so let's say you've got a let's do a million. Let me just do the math on a million, because I got that here.

SPEAKER_04 8:20

Because you already got the that's 20 K gone, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:24

Yeah. So you that's 20 K gone. So you get a million dollar house.

SPEAKER_04 8:28

Um let's assume that half of that's available to borrow on, so now you're at half a million.

SPEAKER_03 8:33

Well, actually, I put it at three quarters because we're older. Okay, so seven fifty. So you're yeah, you're age seventy, your existing mortgage is two fifty, you're going, I need some more money for retirement. Yep. So you can take out between$500 and$550, gross. However, you're going to pay$29,000. You've got to pay two first, you got to take of that$500 to$550, immediately the$250 is withdrawn and pays off your existing mortgage.

SPEAKER_04 9:01

Yeah, that's got to go.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

So now you got$250 to$300. But you got to pay the the$29,000 in FHA insurance and fees. So what is left is somewhere between$220,000 and$270,000 that you can use. That's money you can use, you can spend, you can do anything you want with that money. It's your money. Let's say five years down the road, you're$75, your health is failing, you decide you need to sell the house to go into some sort of extended care facility. Let's assume the house did not appreciate, and it's still worth about a million dollars. Yep. You got to pay off the reverse mortgage. You got your selling costs, which are gonna be about six percent. So uh you might walk away with two hundred thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_04 9:53

Out of what you thought was a whole lot of money, because you thought you had half a million.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

Right.

SPEAKER_04 9:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

No, seven fifty you said seven fifty. You had yeah, you thought you had seven fifty. Now you've taken out a third. You've taken out two hundred and let's say two hundred and fifty, and you've spent that, and you got another two hundred and fifty. So a lot of your money went away because remember the interest rate right now on seven? The interest plus the FHA insurance is right at seven percent now.

Cash Flow Over Inheritance

SPEAKER_04 10:22

So okay. Here's that that if you told me that, that would be it still feels like the last resort, as I've always said.

SPEAKER_03 10:30

Because that's kind of it is a good last resort. I mean it is, but it's a it's which would you rather do? Have a nice house that you're and remember, you also you lose that the the mortgage payment vantage. Ah, just get into that. You you stole my thunder.

SPEAKER_04 10:44

Oh, because this is the part that I think people tend not to pay as much attention to. They're thinking all about the money that they're gonna get to do whatever, but they're forgetting that your cash flow just got improved drastically because you're no longer paying a mortgage on your house. Uh you and I talked about this when we were prepping for this particular because I said, no, don't, I don't want to do reverse mortgages because everybody turns up their nose or gives us the finger, whatever it is. I the thing is, if if you're if your household cash flow is tight in retirement, as you just said, it's hard to argue that this is a bad idea in many ways. Because uh the main reason people don't like it, if they're in the office, I can you know this. I want to leave the house to my kids.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

Right. That's your kids don't want your house most of the time.

SPEAKER_04 11:34

Well, they don't want we've tried to give away a lot of things mostly.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

They don't want any of the junk, I can tell you that. We've been going through stuff, and we're gonna, you know, we're pulling out like old uh uh old China and Crystal and all this stuff going and we look it up online and it's not worth anything. No, it's not. Nobody wants it. Nobody wants this stuff that our parents wanted. And basically, this is not stuff that I bought. It's this is stuff that parents bought and we inherited from parents.

SPEAKER_04 12:02

Oh, yeah, we've got some of that around too.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

And nobody wants it.

SPEAKER_04 12:06

Anyway, the bot so again, I think from a cash flow standpoint, for many people, when it's gonna be tight and you want to stay in your house, this makes a lot of sense. But you gotta remember that interest, that 7%, that's piling up, right? I mean, on the on whatever the note is. It's it's yeah, you're not paying it. It's just accruing. It's just accruing. So at the end of the road, well, you don't care because it's the end of the road, right? Because you have to say, not leaving this to my kids, I don't care about how much is owed, blah, blah, blah. And you go ahead, take the money, and then whatever's left goes to your your estate. So, yeah, the expenses is again if you're pretty spending.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

Because what what's the number? And I I should have looked this number up. Um Let me let me just find it.

SPEAKER_04 12:51

356309, isn't that it? Which number are we spending?

Retirement Savings Gap

SPEAKER_03 12:55

That's the wrong Oh, sorry. I just wondering how many people retire with with less than half a million dollars.

SPEAKER_04 13:02

Oh, it's a lot percentage of Americans or what the nut total number? It's going to be big.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

Uh let's see. Less than 500 is um holy cow, I knew I th I knew it was well over fifty, and I was thinking 70. I'm glad I didn't say anything. 90 percent of Americans have less than$500,000 saved for retirement, Tom. And here we sit here. We sit here on this show all the time and we talk about million dollar portfolios. I know. It's ridiculous. I mean, those occur. Those are so rare. 58%, Tom. These aren't mostly our listeners, but fifty-eight percent have less than ten thousand dollars saved.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

Yeah. And and and and if you're one of the one of those with the thirty-five trillion dollars in home equity, that makes a lot of difference, right? I mean, that that's huge. So um this is this worth considering. It's better than it was. It's a lot worth considering. Yeah. As a for many reasons. So uh I I I I think it it's one of those things that has been an they've added to the planning suite, right? If you came into an advisor and said, here are all here's all the stuff we got, it's now back in that conversation where it wasn't prior, because as you just said, it was the wild, wild west. I don't know if Robert Walter.

SPEAKER_03 14:33

When we talk about 90 percent of people don't have or they have less than 500,000 in retirement. Seventy-five percent of retirees own their own homes. And have equity, which by the way, the median home equity over sixty-five is a quarter of a million dollars. Aaron Ross Powell, so now you're you could take out You're taking a half of that.

SPEAKER_04 14:54

Right. That that adds a lot if you don't have 500.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:58

Yeah, that's a big deal.

Would Tom Do It?

SPEAKER_03 14:59

So worth looking at and even if even if you just get rid of your mortgage, it allows you that extra$1,000,$2,000 a month to spend on other life expenses and no longer have to go into the Trevor Burrus.

SPEAKER_04 15:12

Okay, so we talked about this, but we didn't finish.

SPEAKER_03 15:15

In my circumstance, would you would you would should I do a reverse? In your circumstance? Yeah. In my circumstance, our circumstances are very similar. I know, but I just don't have a mortgage in it. Yeah. Um That goes without saying. You know, I probably wouldn't. I probably wouldn't because I have a two and three quarter percent mortgage. See, my mortgage is what is it, six or something.

SPEAKER_04 15:41

Six point three or something, six point four.

SPEAKER_03 15:44

Tom, you you have enough money. I know. It's not like you need I know. I know I know. I don't know on a need ver yours is more of a want basis than need.

SPEAKER_04 15:54

Here's the thing.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

I'm more of a fan in the need basis. You I don't think so because of the expenses in your own.

SPEAKER_04 15:58

The expenses are very high.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

Yeah, still.

SPEAKER_04 16:01

But but all of a sudden your mortgage payment, it's gone. Still my biggest well, kind of my biggest monthly expense.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

Let's leave that. We don't even want to go into why that quality is.

SPEAKER_05 16:15

That is an entire program.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

Basically, what you do not want to be part of. It's a different kind of program entirely. And I think Dr. Ruth died.

unknown 16:23

I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_03 16:24

What happened to Dr. Laura? She's still around. Is she? Okay. We could call her. Uh we ran long on that segment. So anyway, reverse mortgages. We're not we're not big advocates, but hey, in a lot of cases, we're fans. We're fans.

SPEAKER_04 16:40

It should be considered, especially in retirement planning, especially if it's tight.

Listener Questions Begin

SPEAKER_03 16:46

And boy, I was shocked how many people are tight. I really, for some reason, thought it was in the 70s. I I wow, holy cow. Um we love to answer your questions. It's one of our favorite things to do. Sometimes it takes us a while to get to them because we talk too long about reverse mortgages, but we're getting there. Um you can send in your questions. It's so easy to do. Just go to talkingrealmoney.com on the contact form, and you can type them in. Those go to Tom, and Tom will sometimes do this. He will just pick up the phone and talk to you.

SPEAKER_04 17:18

Let's go to the phones, and Kenneth now joins us from sunny warm, no doubt, Texas. How are you, Kenneth?

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Doing well, thank you, sir.

Bonds Versus Money Market

SPEAKER_04 17:28

Good. Thank you for being part of the program. How can we help you today?

SPEAKER_02 17:32

My question is in my IRA portfolio, what is the compare or would you compare and contrast holding, say, a money market VM FXS XX versus a BND? What's the value of one over the other?

SPEAKER_04 17:50

Yeah, that's a there's a very different, very different funds. Um, very, very, very different. Okay, first of all, BND is a total bond index fund. The idea here is it's it's showing you however the bond market is made up in a in a composite sense, it's giving you exposure to those bonds. So it's mostly government bonds. It has some uh commercial, right, type of bonds, relatively intermediate in terms five to six, seven years, maybe a little bit on the long side, some of those in there too. But it's meant to be an index of all bonds that are available on the market. So that would be a holding for the bond portion of your, if you mentioned an IRA or something like that. Absolutely perfect. A money market fund like VMFXS, FX, we both said the same thing. Completely different fund. That is liquid short-term, very low-risk debt. The idea here is to kind of hold things in T-bills, government paper. Sometimes they throw a little very high-quality commercial paper, but very short-term in nature. So this would be like for cash holding, for example, or something you know you're gonna be spending the money in the next few months. Sometimes people talk about a bucket strategy, right? Where they have their portfolio balance between stocks and bonds, and then they have a bucket that they have money that's there for their living expenses for the next six months or maybe the year. That would be the type of fun to have for that. Or I know I'm gonna buy something in the next year or two, like a car or a house or something like that. I want a place to hold that. That's still giving me a little bit of interest, but it's designed to be a place to hold its value, not move up and down. A BND can have some volatility. Not much. The idea here is that that's the stable part of the portfolio overall, but it can have some volatility. So the BND would be for longer-term balance in your stock to bond ratio. The VMFXX would be for short-term money, as they say, something that you're gonna be spending soon, or you have you may have an expenditure. It could be an emergency type of fund as well. Okay, all right. Does that make sense? So I probably, unless I was gonna be taking money out of my IRA, Kenneth, in the near future, I probably would not hold the money market. I would probably just hold a you know, a stock portfolio and then the BND as the bond portfolio.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

Okay, understand. I understand.

SPEAKER_04 20:29

Is that helpful?

SPEAKER_02 20:30

Very much so, very much. Well in the process of trying to rebuild all of this and just trying to find the right spots for everything.

SPEAKER_04 20:38

Yeah. BND is a very good long-term bond fund. Again, I'm saying long-term, I only mean that for in terms of the holding. It doesn't have a lot of long-term bonds in it, but it is a good place for portfolio stability. Okay. Fair enough. Thank you very much for listening and reaching out to us.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

I do appreciate your insight.

SPEAKER_04 20:59

Take care.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

You too. Bye-bye.

ETF Fees and Tilt

SPEAKER_03 21:02

Then there's the other way he likes to take those questions. Instead of just calling you, he can just read them to me on the podcast, because he, for some reason, gets a kick out of doing that. Like like he's gonna do now. Go ahead and read away, Tommy. From Kenmore, Washington, David writes, In general. You get more in Kenmore. Oh, wait, no, that's right. You used to sell that stuff, didn't you? I did. I was uh 625.

SPEAKER_04 21:28

As an aside, I gotta wonder. What? What didn't they did they sell that part of the bit that seem always seemed like worth a lot of money to me. Craftsman, Ken. They did.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

They sold it to Whirlpool. Okay. Who was the by the way, Whirlpool made m much of their they made all their washers and dryers, all the Kenmore brand washers and dryers.

SPEAKER_04 21:47

That had to be worth a lot of money.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

Athens stoveworks and uh in Indiana somewhere, wherever it is.

SPEAKER_04 21:55

And the three sears still in Indiana or whatever they are.

SPEAKER_03 21:58

Are there any open? Yeah, there are.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

A couple open. All right, David writes, in general, the fees for ETFs appear to be higher than a comparable mutual fund. For example, in your do-it-yourself portfolio, you suggest the ETF A V G E with an expense ratio of 0.25. Your comparable fund recommendation is FSKAX with an expense ratio of 0.015. That's 16 times less expensive. Within a Roth or 401k, are there other benefits that outweigh the higher cost? If yes, what are they? Background, my retirement accounts were set up years ago with mutual funds. You appear to prefer ETFs over funds, so I've been looking to convert, but the every comparable ETF fund is always higher than my current one. There must be a bigger picture. What am I missing?

SPEAKER_03 22:45

Okay, well, one, Fidelity Total Market is not the it's not comparable to AVGE.

SPEAKER_04 22:51

No. Two very different. It's like VT.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

VT is is VT and F S K A X. Now that's an ETF two. That's an apples to apples comparison. And FS, let's see, the Fidelity is at. And VT is at, let's see how much more expensive it is these days.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

What? VT is less.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

No, no, no, no. Hold on. No, I don't think so. I think it's actually more. Yeah, it's.06.

SPEAKER_04 23:22

So it's only it's one-third of FSKAX.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

No, FSKAX is one and a half basis points. One and a half basis points. So yeah, the ETF is, well, four times more expensive. But at we're we're talking about the difference between a penny and a half and six pennies.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

Oh, you're saying pennies don't add up now?

SPEAKER_03 23:48

We don't even we don't make them anymore. Who knows what they do? Trevor Burrus, Jr. AVGE has so many advantages, potential advantages, built into the way it's constructed. One, an ETF has an advantage over a straight mutual fund in that they do not distribute capital gains, generally speaking. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 24:09

But that's not going to matter in a retirement account. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

It doesn't matter in a retirement account, but that's an advantage they have outside of a retirement account. The other advantage that we think AVGE has is its small value tilt. It is not just focused on the magnificent seven or the terrific ten. I think it's clear they're talking about it going up to ten stocks.

SPEAKER_04 24:34

Wow, really? Expanding the list. Expanding the list.

Bitcoin Debate Continues

SPEAKER_03 24:39

It's got all kinds of other stuff in it, and that causes the price to go up. But again, we're not talking about the difference between for example, let's talk about the difference in fees between a broker who also does registered investment advisor work and they charge 2% a year, and you can find another registered investment advisor who charges 1% per year. Now we're talking real money.

SPEAKER_04 25:03

Okay. So but if you had to decide between Victor Thomas or F SKAX, what would you do?

SPEAKER_03 25:11

Flip a coin? Okay. So you're okay there. Yeah, I'm I'm fine. All right. We've got squeeze one. Again, I'm not when we're when we're down to single or you know double basis points, I'm just not sweating this that kind of small stuff. Okay. Good enough.

SPEAKER_04 25:29

Um I want now we got time for one more?

SPEAKER_03 25:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:32

Okay. How about yes? We don't have radio constraints. Very deep breath before this one. You ready? Oh no, it's an annuity question. Nope. No? Okay. Pensacola, Florida, it's Michael. He says, You guys continue to say Bitcoin has no value, yet state that the U.S. dollar has value because of the backing of the U.S. military.

SPEAKER_03 25:52

I never said that. Did we ever say military? I don't think we ever said that. Let me finish.

SPEAKER_04 25:58

I just listened to a four-star U.S. Navy admiral testify to Congress under oath that Bitcoin is critical to national defense. Maybe the blockchain. It seems you guys are stuck in the past. On a side note, I watched an old clip of David Letterman interviewing Bill Gates. It was hilarious. Letterman was making the case the internet is not needed because we already have TV, VCR, and telephone. He reminded me of Don, still confused about the value of Bitcoin. It's okay. We all get there when we're ready. That's I'm never getting there, but it's a cute way of saying that we're out of date here, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 26:36

I know. I don't care. You know, I've heard this. I've heard this. By the way, I'm still using my TV too.

SPEAKER_04 26:41

I've heard the same stupid argument so many times. I don't think the Admiral said Bitcoin is critical. My guess is he said the blockchain may be critical to the military, but Okay, yeah, here's what he said.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

He never once said Bitcoin. Uh it was um uh the commander of Indo-Pacific Command, uh Samuel Paparo, he called Bitcoin a very valuable computer science tool because of the Bitcoin and the technology behind it. He did not say that that Bitcoin it's all that's been made up by the uh the Bitcoiners out there, who of course take something that means one thing and they paraphrase it and exaggerate it because why do they do that? Why why what's his name again? What's his name again? Michael. Michael. Michael, do you own Bitcoin? Yes, of course you do. So, Michael, why do you search out everything that says positive stuff about Bitcoin and poo-poo all of the negative aspects of Bitcoin? Let me guess. Because you want Bitcoin to become more valuable. Not because you think it's important to our economy. No, Michael, don't fool yourself. You're only fooling yourself, sir. You want it to become more valuable because you own it. Come on. You're selfish just like every other human being out there. And by the way, I want you to to uh go down to McDonald's right now for lunch. Go down for lunch, go down for lunch later today, and uh tell them you want to pay in Bitcoin.

SPEAKER_04 28:40

Go ahead, try it. Let me know. Yeah, and just to finish the thought, I still have a TV and a telephone, just to put that out there.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Oh, you're talking about the the Bill Gates on Letterman? Yeah, the internet thing.

SPEAKER_04 28:52

Um did he even say that? I don't know. I didn't go back and fact check it the way you do. You're much more careful about these things than I am.

SPEAKER_03 29:03

Um let me just look it up. All right, let's see what he says. What did he say? What did what did Bill Gates say on uh Letterman about?

SPEAKER_04 29:16

I never knew he was on Letterman. I could never get him on my TV show here in Seattle, so get Letterman? Off my list. No, either one. Okay, Letterman or Gates.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

Uh, let's see. Oh no, no, wait. Okay. Oh, it was Letterman who said it. Not a Letterman said it. Yeah, no. Yeah. He was joking around. He goes, Can you listen to a baseball game on your computer? Does radio ring a bell? Yeah. Do tape recorders ring. Okay, so it was that was Letterman. Yeah, I said that. Getting a laugh.

SPEAKER_04 29:48

Yeah, right. Yeah. I just wanted to find it. I know. But it was a way of saying Letterman was out of, you know, it took him too long to get to the internet where Bill Gates was ahead of the game. By the way, Microsoft and Gates, and they would admit it today, they were late to the game on the internet. That's all.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

By the way, um, have you looked at David Letterman lately? I try not to. I think he's still kind I he's a he's a quirky fella.

SPEAKER_05 30:12

Yeah, he is.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

Yeah. You know, he's not exactly the guy I'd go to for tech tips.

SPEAKER_04 30:17

He's living out in the woods in Indiana, right where he came from.

SPEAKER_03 30:20

Wait, what does Letterman think of Bitcoin? Hold on. Oh, God. You if Letterman is your source.

SPEAKER_04 30:26

I'm I'm I'm out. For that reason.

Crypto Argument Settled

SPEAKER_03 30:28

Yeah, I'm good. You can't leave because I control. I'm like the Twilight Zone. I control the knobs. Uh let's see. Uh yeah. When crypto came up on his show, he basically uh said what's it worth? It wasn't real money. And he said, it sounds like something smart people say is important. There you go. Let's leave it at that. Leave it at that. You're not I'm not I you I know. I don't even this argument is just it's run its course.

SPEAKER_04 31:09

Don't you think? I think it's had its day.

SPEAKER_03 31:12

Yeah. I think if you I truly believe that all of you who are big proponents of Bitcoin are people who own Bitcoin and want it to go up and you're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

And waiting for somebody to come in and tell you why it's going to a hundred thousand or a million, it's gonna be a million dollars this year. Yeah, yeah. That's easy. Anyway, well, it might make it later.

SPEAKER_03 31:30

Thanks for being a part of the podcast. We truly do appreciate you. And uh e whether you're crazy crypto kids or you know, normal people, we still appreciate you being there, and we hope you'll keep listening and tell a friend or two and ask questions at talkingrealmoney.com. And if you want to sit down and talk to an advisor who will not suggest Bitcoin in your portfolio, and you want to do it for free for nothing with no high-pressure sales pits, just go to talkingrealmoney.com, click the meet an advisor button. You can even meet with that guy with the white hair I'm looking at right there. That's blonde. That's white, sir. Sure. Maybe it's your room lighting. I don't know. But boy, bad lighting. It's always bad lighting.

unknown 32:06

White.

SPEAKER_03 32:07

It's white.

SPEAKER_04 32:08

Killing me.

SPEAKER_03 32:08

You know what they you know, it it it's not very expensive. You they do have stuff you can put on that to make it less white.

SPEAKER_04 32:14

I'm no phony, and everything I see here is 100% real.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

It's not that expensive, so you're really not going to be talking real money.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

The opinions and views expressed on this podcast were current on the date recorded. Opinions, estimates, forecasts, and statements of financial market trends that are based on current market conditions constitute our judgment and are subject to change without notice, including any forward-looking estimates or statements which are based on certain expectations and assumptions.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

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SPEAKER_01 32:44

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SPEAKER_00 33:18

A D D do any other website for information regarding public sees and services.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Apollo Capital L O C D B A Apello Wealth is an investment advisory firm registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The firm only transacts business in the states where it is properly registered, or excluded or exempted from registration. Registration with the STC or any State Securities Authority does not imply a certain level of skill or training. Apollo does not provide tax or legal advice, and nothing either stated or implied here should be inferred as providing such advice. Thanks for listening, and please visit talkerealmoney.com for more information and important disclosure related to performance of any specific index or fund quoted in this podcast. I think I need a nap.