Indexes Gone Wild

SPEAKER_00 0:05

You're gonna do a really great financial future. Tom and Don are talking real money.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

You don't like the rules? Change the rules. Apparently that's how rules work these days. Rules are made to be followed until they're inconvenient. Or until they might cost your index some returns. Hi everybody, welcome to the Talking Real Money exciting podcast. I am one of your two hosts. I'm Don. That guy over there who wears a tie to these things. He dresses up for a podcast. He's the only guy in America who dresses for a podcast.

SPEAKER_04 0:44

Wait, there's nobody watching this.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Joe Sal Seahi doesn't. No, there is no one watching this.

SPEAKER_04 0:49

Oh, that is a good idea.

Podcasting Rules

SPEAKER_02 0:50

I don't even know why we record video. We do. We record video, but we never do that. Tragic.

SPEAKER_04 0:54

Tragic.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

No, it's definitely not tragic. We were meant for podcasting. We are podcast people.

SPEAKER_04 1:04

I hope my grand great-grandkids aren't listening to this going, wait, what do they mean by that?

SPEAKER_02 1:09

What?

SPEAKER_04 1:10

That he's meant for podcasting. What the heck's that supposed to mean? Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

It'd be your great-grandkids. Your grandkids will know. They'll know. They're growing up with podcasting. Maybe the greats or the great greats.

SPEAKER_04 1:20

Trevor Burrus, no, I'm saying that they hear the comment that I was made for podcasting, not for television. That's the inference I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

They know they know you. They see you.

SPEAKER_04 1:29

They're listening to this 50 years from now.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

No, they're and they've seen you. They've seen you before. They go, they go, they're pictures of grandpa. Yeah. No, you're right. He was made for podcasting.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

All right. Smart guy.

Index Funds Explained

SPEAKER_02 1:40

What are we talking about? Making making rules and then breaking rules. Now there's this concept that we have sort of been an advocate of.

unknown 1:48

Sort of.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Which is index mutual funds. Indexed mutual funds. Mutual funds that follow a set index. Typically that index is like the MSCI, the total world market, or the S P 500, not our favorite, but at least, you know, these are all rules-based methods to buy investments. You buy a portfolio that has been created based on a set of rules. Well, today, apparently some folks don't like the rules, particularly when it comes to the S P 500 and uh SpaceX.

SPEAKER_04 2:27

Well, they they don't like it because they believe that's gonna mean the index in my mind, this is why, isn't gonna make as much as a lot of other people are gonna make. They're gonna say, wait, the SP 500 is underperforming this year. It's a fat this is fascinating because if you ask the average investor, they're gonna tell you, I'm in the S P 500, so I'm diversified. And then you ask them what the S P 500 holds, they're gonna go, oh, you know, all the stocks.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Yeah, it doesn't. It just holds supposedly the largest companies in America based on market capitalization with a couple of rules. The rules are things like we don't, we have to we wait a year before we let a new stock come into the index. That's been the rule for a very long time. Yep. You know, because IPOs tend to come out very, very choppy. They either come out roaring out of the gate, they underprice them, and they soar on the offering because there's so darn much hype, or they overprice them on the opening. And this is more this is the norm because Pete remember the companies are greedy. They want when they go public, they want to get the most money out of you possible. So they go to their bankers and they say, What's the highest price we can charge for this stock on the initial public offering that will still get buyers? Because you don't want your IPO coming out and nobody buys it.

SPEAKER_04 3:58

That's so the S P 500 is looking at stocks like SpaceX, OpenAI, Anthropic that are all coming out here or soon, maybe by the time it's just maybe all around a trillion dollar IPOs.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

We're talking real money. Biggest IPOs ever.

SPEAKER_04 4:17

And they want a piece. This is so sad because I think they just it's just total greed. They want to say, we want a piece of that. We want to have some of that in our fund because it's gonna make a lot of money, right? I don't know that it's greed.

Active Management Concerns

SPEAKER_02 4:28

I think it's uh I think it's a uh I think it's an ego, it's an egoist kind of thing. Uh the S P, the standard empor's people don't want their S P 500, on which they garner, from which they garner a lot of money, just from the use of that term, uh, they don't want it tarnished by underperformance. They like to brag that the S ⁇ P 500 is outperforming all the other indexes. And if suddenly SpaceX comes out and it gets in the triple Q uh or whatever, uh and they outperform, the SP is gonna, they're gonna look bad.

SPEAKER_04 5:07

Yeah, and I think part of this goes to what I was trying to mention earlier, that if we asked you what the SP 500 is, I think you'd say the 500 largest and many people would say most successful companies in America, which would also not necessarily be true. But the worry is it's somehow that it's not subject to human discretion. There's nobody sitting around. That it's not actively managed. Exactly. This is all in a machine somewhere that's telling us what to do. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

And doesn't this thinking, this idea that well, we're gonna bend the rules to allow these stocks to come in, doesn't that sound like active management, like actively manipulating the shape of the portfolio to bring in stocks that you believe you do not know this, that you believe will do better.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

Yeah, okay. So but there's two parts, two things that the SP folks are looking at. One is reducing the time that you have to be publicly traded before we'll add you to the index, which I think is pretty dramatic, by the way. But the other one is around these rules with free float, which is something that'd be very important as the summer months are coming up and I'm out on the lake. No, that's not the free float I'm pretty sure. Temperature still in the cold.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

I would imagine that temperature, even in the summer, stays pretty chilly.

SPEAKER_04 6:29

You know, it's it's plenty warm by August. Anyway, define warm. 70 degrees plus.

unknown 6:38

Oh, balmy.

SPEAKER_04 6:39

That's actually I looked it up.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

People in Florida won't go into a pool unless it's 82.

SPEAKER_04 6:44

That's described as cool at 70 degrees. Cold it says under 70, and it's still under 70, so I won't go in in the cold. I'm waiting for cool. All right, but describe maybe because this is an important concept. Something that I never paid attention to when it came to stocks until I read this article. Fascinating. Free float. Yeah. The float. How much how many shares are available?

SPEAKER_02 7:02

Yeah, how many shares can the market? You're right, because you've got to have a lot of shares available, or the their the liquidity is going to suffer. They're going to have big wide spreads, the pricing is going to look a little wacky.

SPEAKER_04 7:15

Yeah. And so they want to have a reasonable number of shares that are available to trade, right? They don't want to have so few that it could impact the price dramatically if somebody comes in and says, Well, I got to buy three percent today.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Well, which of those three, anthropic open AI, and SpaceX, is likely to have a low float? I don't know. They're gonna have big old big honking floats.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

You would think. Again, I don't know. But I mean, but the point is, out of all of this, and they there's some funds or some funds, some stocks they talk about that that i if if SpaceX ends up with a$1.75 trillion value, which is astounding. It would be the eighth largest stock. You imagine this tomorrow? Okay, here's number eight, guys. Move move move back from not you in the four hundreds. We're talking top ten. You're gonna be changing.

S&P 500 Changes

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Well, that's why they're talking about the uh the Magnificent Ten now or whatever. It used to be the Magnificent Seven. I don't know what their new first name is gonna be.

SPEAKER_04 8:17

So but here's the SP wants to cut it from twelve months to six months. Right. And you have to be publicly traded for six months and move you in. It's gotta have enough in the free float. Um but listen to some of these others. The Invesco, the QQQ, new rules that went into force, uh they'll allow them fifteen days for IPOs, big enough to make the top 40. See, they add these little disclaimers okay, if you're big, if you're the big ones.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

So all of these guys are fiddling because they all want a piece of this action. Exactly. They they want those who own their their indexes or or use their indexes and pay a fee to use their indexes to feel good about the the the index itself.

SPEAKER_04 9:00

The reason I think you should care about it.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

This baffles me. This whole thing about changing the rules in the middle of the game because I don't like the rules anymore.

The Impact of Rule Changes

SPEAKER_04 9:08

And the reason I think you should pay attention to it is because it will it will be impactful to the standard in Porsche 500. It you should realize that the standard in Porsche 500, it it's written, and it's written apparently rewritten, as you said, Don, by human beings, and they look at the situation and say, yeah, we should really change this, this should be different. So if you think it's just some set index that was designed 100 years ago that reflects the American economy, I don't think that's true. And our friend Jason Schweig says uh he calls it awful. He thinks this is an awful change. That that's strong, but um but I think it's reasonable to th to see, okay, so what's next? Then when I read stuff like this, I think, well, what are they gonna change? What are they gonna change next? I mean, in my game, the game of soccer, we're getting to the place now, if if the ball hits your arm, anything below the armpit, almost ever, that's a handball. In my day, there was a measure of intent to all that, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:05

So that is a Oh, they're just gonna make it absolute.

SPEAKER_04 10:08

It it's you're gonna have to, because basically anytime it just everybody says, oh, it's a handball. Well, as a referee, I'd say no, that that it was natural position, all the all the arguments. But in this case, I don't I think this is another reason you cannot rely on indexes for almost any in other words, and by the way, there's I took the I took time to look this up. The major indexes you know, SP, NASDAQ, Wilshire 500, there are 600 global stock indexes, there are 2,700 regional stock indexes, there are 1,700 sector indexes. So if you think you can just say, well, I'm an index investor and that means I'm taken care of, no, I don't think you can make that assumption, especially when the biggest of the big, the granddaddy of them all, well, maybe not, because that would be the now don't industrial average worth anything, but is willing, as you said, to change the rules kind of on a whim because they're looking and saying, look, we don't want to underperform the QQQ, so we're gonna stretch this out a little bit, add you in six months, put you in there at number seven, you go get them, killer.

Choosing the Right Index Fund

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Yeah. Now the the So I I guess the question is, how do you pick an index fund when the index can be different? Maybe you should do what we have kind of come around to suggesting, and that's just own the whole darn thing. Now, there are still rules associated with the MSCI World Index, which is that is ninety-nine percent of the stocks traded in the world. They do have some. That's what I was looking up.

SPEAKER_04 11:58

I assume that once it's publicly traded, at some point the next the end of the next quarter, they'll be adding that in.

unknown 12:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:05

But I I that that would be a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

I don't know what the rule is on MSCI. I mean, S P 500 had the one-year rule that they're trying to change to the six-month. Uh, but here's the thing: at least with the MSCI All-World Index, you can pretty much know you're getting the world. It's the top 99% of the companies. Yes, they do have some float rules. It can't be a giant company or one of the biggest 99% and not have enough shares traded for there to be decent liquidity. But otherwise, it's pretty close. And I do I haven't heard about them changing their rules. So I think that's a good bet. What about, though, I and this is something that I just was thinking about. What about our buddies at Dimensional and Avantis? They are rules-based funds, and they do from time to time change the rules. But it's different, isn't it? Isn't it different?

SPEAKER_04 12:58

Well, I think we should ask them. I don't know what they're going to do with these humongous IPOs, but generally they make they wait at least a year. That was always the rule before, at least a year.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

I have heard nothing about them changing the rule for that purpose. Yeah. They tend to have very firm rules, and the only time from what my conversations with them that they change the rules is when they find a new factor or something that that that has incredible back-tested data that shows it is a significant it makes a significant, or it has, I should say, has made a significant difference in the performance of that particular portfolio. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Listener Questions

SPEAKER_04 13:40

Yeah, and and it's been great the last five years, both momentum and profitability. I happen to take a look at that recently. So uh yeah, we we will ask both Dimensional and Avantis and bring that information back to you about when, if something comes out at$2 trillion, will it get added to you know which particular fund that uh that Avantis or Dimensional has that would include. Yeah, I'll I'll put that in there. It's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

And if there are things you want to know that we haven't covered, you have some questions for us. Well, we do love taking them. And how we take them is really simple. You just go to talkingreal money.com and you click ask a question and you either type your question in or you speak it in. If you speak it, it goes on the Friday podcast. If you if you if you type it, Tom either reads the questions or sometimes he just has a conversation with you.

LLC and Retirement Options

SPEAKER_04 14:37

We go to the Sunshine State, oh, that's Florida, and uh guess what? There's another guy named Tom. I really didn't have never met another Tom before, but we'll make an exception in this case, Tom, and uh allow you to be on Talking Real Money. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? I'm just living the living the dream here every day with Don McDonald. Doesn't get any better than this. No, I'm kidding. It it probably does, but I'm gonna have to suffer through it. It's just the way it goes. So, how can we help you today, sir?

SPEAKER_03 15:07

So um, I have a question about um LOC that I have with my spouse. So the question here is um we had this LOC for a while. She used to be the lonely partner, and then a few years ago, um I added, you know, we added myself, so now it's a true partner LOC. The question here is every year we have, you know, in through the sidekick or something, we generate a small profit. And I'm trying to find out what are the options for either pre- or post-tax retirement or any other vehicle where it can, you know, it can grow instead of just sitting in a bank where you earn pretty much nothing.

SPEAKER_04 15:54

Yeah, that's a good question. So it you said small profit, are you paying yourselves as owners when it comes like wages, or are you just waiting till the end of the year and then taking whatever profit out of the business as sort of a dividend?

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Uh just a dividend. We can pay ourselves.

SPEAKER_04 16:12

Yeah, so the the issue you face there is that would disallow you from doing anything into a retirement type account, like at IRA or Roth IRA or simple or other ways you could save, you know, sort of tax-deferred or tax-free, because you have to have actual income from the business to do that. So that leaves you kind of with a more limited uh avenue here, Tom, and that would be just to open a regular like brokerage account, and you could, you know, take the money out of as dividends and put it in the brokerage account um and invest it that way. I mean, you can invest it in anything at that point. Um, but you wouldn't be able to do wouldn't be able to do a retirement account because you have that has to be as income uh for either party.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

Okay, so the salary is a requirement to have any kind of retirement. Correct. That would be right.

SPEAKER_04 17:02

And and most of the time, by the way, the government at some point may be unhappy with you if you're not paying any salaries and you're only taking that as dividends, right? Because they're not getting their piece of the action then. At some point they may say, is this a hobby? Is this a real business? Because if it's real business, then you need to pay wages, and that means guess what, you got to pay Social Security on it, et cetera, et cetera. So they sometimes will be a little unhappy at some point if you're not taking that as regular income. So I mean, maybe what you could do is your wife could take, or you for that matter, maybe I won't tell her you're doing it, uh, take a small salary as part of if you if you're looking at the books and saying, look, at the end of the year we're gonna have X, so that means a couple times a year I'm gonna pay myself as a regular employee, W 2 wages, and then you could, you know, save into a whole raft of different methods. Um, you know, if it's still a relatively small amount, I would probably just take it as income and then pay into a Roth IRA, for example. But you could do uh a solo 401k, you could do simple, there's some other things you could do. But maybe the starting place would be kind of to run the numbers, take a look at this, Tom, and say, you know, we're gonna have about this much profit, so let's pay ourselves as regular employees X amount, and then um then you could do that for part of it, and at the end of the year, if you had extra, you could still put it into a regular type, as I say, brokerage account.

SPEAKER_03 18:26

Okay. That does make sense.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you very much for listening, and we really appreciate you uh you dialing in your call there, Tom. Take care. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

Keep your dad jokes coming.

SPEAKER_04 18:39

I appreciate it. I think yours are better, actually. So I I I appreciate your time.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

All right, take care. Mike.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

And previously I I mentioned the written ones that Tom reads, and I think that's what he's gonna do now. You got paper?

SPEAKER_04 18:56

Yeah, he does.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

He's got paper.

SPEAKER_04 18:57

He's got paper. Here you go. Yep. This comes from not my real name near Atlanta, Georgia.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

How do we know it's really someone near Atlanta, Georgia? Could be not my real name.

SPEAKER_04 19:08

But I have an email address I could send them.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Like Idaho.

SPEAKER_04 19:11

Yeah, could be. Hello, Tom and Don. I'm a 56-year-old highly compensated employee with total compensation around$200,000, including bonuses. My employer offers a 10% match. I'm assuming you're referring to his 401k there. 401.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

Sounds like a 401k.

SPEAKER_04 19:26

And I contributed$26,000 last year, but due to non-discrimination testing, I received an$18,000 refund. Yikes. As a highly compensated employee. That's really unfortunate. Trying to figure out how to maximize retirement savings despite these limits. Fully funding my wife's 403B is one possibility, but the investment choices in her plan are limited and unattractive. They are also opaque and poorly rated by 403B wise.

unknown 19:57

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

It's so common.

SPEAKER_04 19:59

Yeah, it really is.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

It's so common street leaders in hospitals. I know. They make such horrible choices. They are they are so easily swayed by highfalutin, fast talking salespeople. Highfalutin people like that term. That's a very 19th-century highfalutin.

Maximizing Retirement Savings

SPEAKER_04 20:17

But let's finish the email. Complicating things further, our household income will now likely put us beyond the Roth IRA income limits. And a backdoor Roth seems problematic because I have an old rollover IRA subject to the ProRata rule. Oh, yeah. Although I wonder whether it's just that. But he already suggested something I think makes sense. He could roll that IRA into his current 401k if allowed could reopen the backdoor Roth strategy. Given those restraints, what strategies would you recommend? This is complicated. Why not take the IRA move it with the right?

SPEAKER_02 20:55

Right, but if it's a great if it's a great 401k, if it's a good 401k. Decent. I'd even say good. I wouldn't put it in the wife's 403B, for example. But you can't. Well you can't take his own. Oh I know, but I'm just saying I wouldn't put it in a bad plan. If it if his 401 looked like his wife's 403, I'd probably say just put money in growth-oriented ETFs in a taxable account and uh don't worry about it because they're not going to get taxed at that high a rate. Uh but the backdoor, uh backdoor's attractive. It's a great way to do that. So you're saying move the IRA?

SPEAKER_04 21:26

If he can do that, sure.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 21:27

Yeah. Move the IRA to the 401k, then do the backdoor for example. And then um despite the poor choices, you so you'd leave the 403B contributions as they are and and add in a taxable brokerage. I would.

Tax-Efficient Investment Strategies

SPEAKER_02 21:42

I would. I really sometimes I think we get way too caught up in the tax game that we let the tax the these minor tax advantages really in the grand scheme of things when it comes to saving money and growing that money long term. You if you're growing it and you're paying tax. Taxes along the way, that's not a terrible thing. It's kind of like your 401k, where you're growing it, you're gonna you're getting a tax break now, but later you're gonna pay taxes. And the lovely thing about using growth-oriented ETFs is that by and large, for the most part, they rarely distribute capital gains. Now, that may be changing with some of these new weird ones out there. But the old standbys, the Avantases, the Dimensionals, the Vanguards, all of these guys, the the spiders, the Schwabs, they're they are going they are managed in such a way that there are few, if any, capital gains distributions, and they're they tend the growth-oriented vehicles, tend not to have much in the way of income distributions either.

SPEAKER_04 22:38

So in essence, they can be tax-deferred to a large part of the is the fact I actually like having the pre-tax qualified, the Roth, and taxable brokerage when you get to retirement because you can draw different accounts, different taxation set of the other.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

Yeah, you get flexibility in distribution in the uh decumulation phase.

SPEAKER_04 23:01

So yeah, I I think that's a good strategy. And we go to Mercer Island, Washington. Dorothy writes. Subject. Isn't that some place where a bunch of rich people hang out like you once? We call it poverty rock, Don. Um, they're gonna get mad at me for that. Uh, friends who live there. Uh I don't live there. You did, though. I never lived on Mercer Island. Oh, I thought you lived on Mercer.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Didn't you live on an island?

SPEAKER_04 23:25

No, I never lived on an island. That's Paul. He still lives on an island. Oh, Paul lives on the bridge. It's a good place where he can blow the bridge. Keep him on the island. Uh Trump, the subject is Trump's new retirement plan with a 1K government match. Please explain how this works. Who's the custodian of the retirement account? Who's responsible for record keeping and reporting to the federal government? Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

It doesn't exist yet. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

We don't know.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

None of the details. This is like hey, we're just gonna do this. We keep talking about these plans that don't exist yet. I know. And the thing is, is that they're they they they don't exist. There are no rules. We don't know. These are all proposals. Yep. They're all pipe dreams as of right now. Announcements. Announcements. No. Congress needs to actually do some things, then the IRS needs to do some things. And you know, the whole idea uh was kind of floated uh codified in security.

SPEAKER_04 24:20

Is this the same as the 530 or is this different than the other?

SPEAKER_02 24:22

No, this is different than the 530. This is the Trump IRA.

SPEAKER_04 24:26

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

How come everything has his name on it?

Proposed Retirement Plans

SPEAKER_04 24:30

I d we've already done this. We've cut this is ground we've covered, plowed already, so leave it be. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Usually they're named after the people in Congress who create them, like rock. I know. I'm I'm always in such trouble, but I just don't understand it. So, uh Dorothy? I thought I was a person, but I don't know. Stay tuned. We don't know the answer. We don't know. No. And quit. Everybody, quit getting all caught up in things that that haven't happened yet, that what may never happen. Just live with what you got. You got IRAs, you got Roth IRAs, you got your 403s, you got your 457s, you got your 403Bs. Don't forget. You got your regular taxable accounts. Didn't I say 401s? I thought I said 401. You got your 401s? Oh, yeah, 401A's. Oh, see, you got so many choices now. Do you really need another one? No.

SPEAKER_04 25:22

But if it gets one person to save one more dime, I guess. Okay, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

But you can't use it right now. No.

SPEAKER_04 25:29

So we don't know about any of the particulars. And if I was a guessing man, I'm betting we don't know for the remainder of this year.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Oh no, we won't. Are you kidding? Actually getting government, government, our government to to accomplish something right now? No, ain't happening. Maybe for the best. On both sides of the flipping aisle. What'd they say? One of the worst things ever happened.

SPEAKER_04 25:54

Washington, D.C. was the installation of air conditioning. So yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

Because they didn't leave in the summer.

SPEAKER_04 26:00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

Yeah. Yeah, that's true. It was a swamp. They everybody stayed, you had yellow fever.

SPEAKER_04 26:07

Yeah, yeah and malaria by the way.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

And malaria, yeah. So get out of there.

SPEAKER_04 26:11

Fair enough. That's it. That's all I got.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

You happy? And I want to thank you all for your listening habits and for your questions and for the fact that you've been telling friends. And last we looked, we were nipping at the heels of Joe Saul C. You can't let that go. I can't. I can't. Well, it used to be back in the back when back years ago, three, four, five years ago.

SPEAKER_04 26:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

That they were like, you know, they were up in the stratosphere, and we occasionally poked our heads up through the basement floor. It's like cumulus. Like little moles digging into the house.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

Hey, hi, everybody. We're coming up. Really? We're gonna we're gonna gnaw our way up to the first floor.

Closing Thoughts

SPEAKER_02 26:57

You've lived near Disney too long, my friend. Yeah, I have. I have. Uh so anyway, send your questions in at talkingrealmoney.com. If you want to meet with an advisor for free for nothing without any high-pressure sales pitch, that's a promise. Go to talkingrealmoney.com, click on meet an advisor. You'll meet with one of our appel advisors for a little while, but you can't have them as a uh uh lifelong investment advisor unless you pay. So there, you better pay up. Anyway, thanks for being there. Take good care of yourselves and remember five days a week. Five days a week, except uh for holidays. You know. Gotta take some time off. Or uh uh like Tom, except for holidays and the uh the monthly vacations.

SPEAKER_04 27:42

Ubiquitous vacations.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

We're gonna be here those other days, the ones that Tom is here and I anyway, we'll be talking real money.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

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