Ep. 2004: The Annuity Rules Keep Changing

SPEAKER_05 0:19

A table set for two. A man with a borrowed smile swears he's looking out for you. The wine is red, the candles blow the stove cut just right. The returns of the market with no risk. That stakes not free.

SPEAKER_04 1:22

That stake was never free. Talkin' real money.

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A reprise of uh well, shorter reprise of uh the financial physicist's hit song. Hit

Annuity Royalties Jokes

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song. It's already up to a dollar and ninety cents in rut in royalties. That's stakes not free.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

This is not your entire retirement, right? There's other sources.

SPEAKER_07 1:49

I'm getting rich as a as an AI musician.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

I just want to make sure that's the same. Anybody think there's a lot of money in this, please. Yeah, $1.90. Is that after taxes or is that before taxes?

SPEAKER_07 2:02

Oh, that's before. I'm sure I'll get my $1099 for that.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

And are you I'm sure you're taking money out of that and saving it right into your 401k, too, right?

SPEAKER_07 2:11

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Just want to check, make sure you're saving properly.

SPEAKER_07 2:16

No, actually, I decided that is money I'm gonna put into an indexed annuity. I'm just gonna try it out and see how it works.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Right, let's just do it.

SPEAKER_07 2:23

It's all the rage. Indexed annuities are selling, I mean, they're selling billions of dollars of uh our most hated annuity

Indexed Annuities Under Fire

SPEAKER_07 2:32

product. And today's episode, I know we're going to flog this dead horse again, but it's not dead. The problem is it's not dying.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

It's not a hundred and twenty-eight billion with a B dollars of these sold last year.

SPEAKER_07 2:48

Well, now, if you're Elon Musk, that's not very much.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

I okay. If they bring him in, then yeah, things look pretty good. But that's a lot of money, $128 billion of equity indexing.

SPEAKER_07 3:01

That's of a product that we have we have uh criticized pretty robustly, but there was a recent piece was that I know I forget. Wall Street Journal. Was it the journal? Yeah, it was the journal on a number of these products, and how some they're they're doing something that I didn't even I thought they were bad enough. And then I thought they were terrible with the commissions they charge and and the surrender charges and and the promises and the promises, you know, they promise you high returns, and then the reality is you don't, but there's something new that the journal discovered, and I didn't even know this.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

It's kind of confusing, too. Well, it's not really. I mean, well, okay, I'll allow you to explain it, but let's first, before we do that, talk about the returns because this is the promise is you don't lose and you get the returns kind of like the market. Kind of it's squishy, right? It's not the returns of the market because they couldn't sell it that way. But the promises that and in the piece they talk about I've been to these pitches.

SPEAKER_07 4:13

I've been to a steak dinner, and the pitch is here's what the stock market did. Yep, and you can get rid of all this volatility by buying this, and you can still get the returns of the market. And in a bad year, you just make nothing. You don't lose, you just make nothing. Well, that is an incredibly enticing pitch. Absolutely. Give me the market's return and no downside. I'm all over that.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

Because, I mean, as we know, in complete disclosure, stocks lose money about one out of every four years. I I know it feels like it's been a long time, but uh that's about the historical average. But for example, the woman here that sold a prod product by Athene uh 12 years, annualized return 3.7 percent. Does that sound like the market? By the way, had you owned the S P 500 in that same period of time, 13%. Had you owned treasuries, about 3% a year, right?

SPEAKER_07 5:15

I mean, so you didn't need to that guy didn't need that big commission that he didn't disclose, and you didn't need to get locked in. Huh. But here's the part that really bothers me. It's not just that, and we've said that before. We've said the annualized returns have averaged three to five percent on these.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

No one believes us when we say that either, by the way.

SPEAKER_07 5:35

Because of the way they're structured, they're they're based on a part of an index's return up to a maximum and things like that. But here's the part I did not know. With this particular, let's use this policies case that they talked about in the WSJ article. Um in the first year of this woman's policy, 60% of her money earned returns tied to the stock market, okay? So 60% the other 40% didn't. 60% earn money tied to the stock market minus 2.9% spread. But then in the seventh year, instead of it being 60%, they said, We're only gonna give you 55% of the market's return. And then less the spread. Then forty-five percent of the market's return. So they're changing the rules, even though you may still be subject to a hefty surrender charge. And by the way, that money that that other 55% after year 11, what was that earning? One percent per year.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

That's how you arrive at the arithmetic, which I hope you learned in fifth grade, of like less than four percent a year for a period of time where stocks soared. Uh that honestly, that was new news to both you and I. I didn't know that they could just sort of hack back how much you're gonna make.

SPEAKER_07 7:06

But you know what? Here's one of the problems with these products nobody reads the disclosure documents, not even us. I've tried, I can't read the whole thing. It's just too many pages of legal ease. I've gone through and and skimmed them and picked out bits and pieces and parts. But the reality is they can do all kinds of things that take away your return, and that's what they're designed

Rules, Commissions, and SEC

SPEAKER_07 7:31

to do. And here's the real rub of this, and we have talked about this for years now. It it almost any product you can think of that is tied to the returns of the stock market is regulated by the Securities and Exchange Commission. And originally, indexed annuities were going to be regulated by the SEC, but the insurance industry spent tens of millions of dollars lobbying Congress to remove the Securities and Exchange Commission from that because they knew the SEC would not allow them to do the things that they do. They would never have been allowed to say return to the market with no risk. Never. We couldn't say that. And we're we're we're SEC registered, regist regulated. But indexed annuities are only regulated by state insurance commissioners, and we've talked about the problems with them too.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

And this is part of the problem, is in the article it mentions quote-unquote educational materials for an indexed annuity sold by Delaware Life, for instance, show a premium of $100,000 growing to $2.7 million over the next 21 years. I'll tell you the other thing they're spending a lot of money on, other than lobbyists. Commissions. Wow.

SPEAKER_07 8:48

Oh, yeah, this part shocked me too.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Shocking. They mentioned five, they mentioned seven percent. We've seen them as high as I think ten, right?

SPEAKER_07 8:55

Sometimes I saw one that was 12 once, but I can't find it now. I could not find the 12, but I do remember seeing one. 10 I can find.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Yeah. And here's the thing. I love this, what the insurance or the insurance companies say about that? Well, the higher commissions reflect the complexity of the products, which require greater explanation. I guess next time.

SPEAKER_07 9:15

You think that dude at the steak dinner wearing a polyester leisure suit actually studied the product? Come on.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

They don't know. They don't know. They don't know. Uh, shocking the numbers, shocking all of this, and it just every day it surprises me that we all, because we're part of you too, hear that siren song, I want to make money, I don't want to take any risk, and then you end up at the insurer's door because this is the product that answers that emotional problem that we have. I don't ever want to see my account balance go down. Well, good luck with that, right?

SPEAKER_07 9:56

If you don't want to see your account balance go down, guess what the expected return is right now in this environment when we're recording this? It's about four percent. Huh. Doesn't that sound similar? No similar, not as you know, that it's better than the return on indexed annuities for some people. And yet you you're you're enriching the insurance company. And the other thing is, and the article also got into this the fact that some of these, like uh that Athene uh product is owned by Apollo Global Management, which is a big private asset firm, and they're using these products to sell their own stuff into. Uh there was a big article, in fact, there was an update to that article about the owner of the Dodgers, who has the company company, and he bought the Dodgers using the indexed annuity holders' money. And it turns out that he was putting like half the money in private equity deals that were not arm's length transactions that he had something to do with, apparently.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Yeah, and had you and I started on this 15 years ago instead of what we did, I'd have you as part owner of the Denver Broncos right now.

SPEAKER_07 11:09

So it could have me and Condoleezza Rice sitting in the booth.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

All right, I decided when you brought this topic up to have on the program, which we've covered some of this.

SPEAKER_07 11:19

Yeah, but this is worse than

What Not to Own

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it was before.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

And this is a new development that we did not know about. That said, it reminded me of our friend Rick Edelman, who I no longer like because he's a crypto king. Um, he had a list of things.

SPEAKER_07 11:33

I was gonna call him a crypto creep, but if you want to say king, that's nice.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

A long time ago, I stole from him, which I always loved, a list of things he would never invest in, quote unquote. This is one, but I decided to think about the other ones. Whole life policies, right? Mm-hmm. Variable, I hate variable stuff. I'm just it's garbage, right? Variable annuities, single stock exchange traded funds, uh-uh. Leveraged exchange traded funds, which is where all the growth in exchange traded funds has been this year. Still can't believe it. IPOs, crypto and gold. Somebody asked me about this when we were just in our trip in this house.

SPEAKER_07 12:14

Rick Edelman didn't he said that? No, I this is my new list. Because he he likes crypto.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yeah, he but those are purely speculative. Private equity and private credit came up at a recent conference I was at, and I was just sitting there shaking my head saying, Nope, not gonna happen. Non-traded REITs, still see them sold. I just ran into one the other day. Still see this jump.

SPEAKER_07 12:36

Well, because they can offer such great returns because who knows what they're worth.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

I can tell you it's not what it was five. They can offer them.

SPEAKER_07 12:44

They not necessarily they're not gonna necessarily give them, but they can offer them.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

And then the entire so much of this now is out there because we've been in this bull market options, futures, derivatives, all this crap that is just like gambling. I didn't even throw gambling in there, even though people consider it investments as they do.

SPEAKER_07 13:03

Well, see that the I I actually uh that's where I that's my delineation, is it is it investing or is it gambling? And all the things you just mentioned really must be removed from the gambling side of the ledger and moved over or from the investing side over to the gambling side. The risk, if you can lose everything, then it's gambling. It's absolutely gambling.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Who was a comedian who said, I think he he put it all in something and lost it all. He said, but not a penny more than I had. You know, I only lost everything I had. That was it.

SPEAKER_07 13:41

Well, but there are some things where you can lose more than you have. If you leverage, you can lose more than you

Gambling or Investing?

SPEAKER_07 13:47

have. So please but okay, I'm not saying you can lose all that you have in indexed annuities. Let's not draw that conclusion.

SPEAKER_06 13:54

No, it's not a good idea.

SPEAKER_07 13:54

Because they are there there are assets there, but the these are trick products. They're gimmicks, they're convoluted, they're complicated, they're not designed to be uh uh transparent, they're designed to be opaque, they're designed to confuse you, they're designed to baffle you with BS, and they are really, truly, I can tell you, indexed annuities, indexed annuities should be avoided at all costs. They are truly, to my mind, one of the most evil products ever sold to investors, ever sold to investors. Got questions for us about these or any other investments, just send them in at talkingrealmoney.com. And sometimes Tom will do this. He's gonna, oh, here he goes. He's going over to the phone lines, he's

Retirement Cash Reserve Plan

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going to pick up the phone and we go to stunningly beautiful Mount Hood, Oregon, where we chat with Brian.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Brian, hello and welcome to Talking Real Money. How are you? I'm good. Thank you for having me. My pleasure. What uh what's on your mind today, sir?

SPEAKER_03 15:02

Well, uh, been in this, uh interested in this for a bit and a bunch of different plans for setting up for retirement. Uh, wife and I in the mid-50s, uh just still working, still moving forward, but trying to come up with a plan for the future. Uh my thought is setting up a reservoir system. I've heard people talk about bucket systems and different ways of doing it, but my reservoir idea is to set up a bucket of cash in a taxable brokerage account and then use money from uh I currently have 457s uh with work. Uh plan to transfer those out into uh the um uh an IRA through the tax same taxable brokerage account using. And then set up uh essentially uh three years worth of extras. Uh wife and I are fortunate enough uh that Social Security and pension will cover uh all living expenses with extra. So um the the the plan would be to have that for things like roof, a new car, that sort of thing. And then once we have that bucket of cash, then just use money from the IRAs, uh, also have Roth IRAs, probably gonna leave Roth alone as we don't need it to let that grow tax-free. And then just feed it. If the market goes up, set up uh something like a large cap value, uh large cap growth, small cap international. And then just as those sectors go up, when you're looking at it, just start feeding the reservoir with cash. Um just kind of curious what your idea, what your thought is on that. I know that there is some um some potential loss by not having that m money in the market for growth purposes. Uh, but in retirement, again, with uh Social Security and pension covering daily living expenses, don't really see needing it. I I don't know if that's enough, but I just want to get your thoughts, any questions.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Yeah, that's this is this is always where the rubber meets the road, right? When it comes to retirement, where's the income going to come from? How much should I have sort of sitting around waiting for whatever may come up? I think you mentioned a roof, et cetera. God, I hope I don't have another one of those. Um, because that's no fun. So here if if indeed the plan with the fixed income from retirement, you know, from your pension and social security covers the day-to-day stuff, which I think awesome. You know, my advice there then would be not to have so much in cash. I think you mentioned three years or four years, quite a bit. I mean, again, you what for the reason you stated at the outset, um, that is going to be a drag on overall long-term performance. It sounds like you're gonna have money left over at the end of your lives for others or charity or something. So, therefore, in that case, you really want to be pretty fully invested. But there's no right or wrong answer to this. Everybody does this differently. All of our clients, you know, it's a one-on-one, like, I want to have this much sitting around in cash because I don't know what's going to happen, et cetera, et cetera. And I don't have to sell something at the wrong time. Because look at this year, where we're, you know, we some people may have to sell bonds because they're down a bit, you know, while they're down, and people don't really want to do that if they can avoid it. So there's there's no right or wrong. I would, I would say, in a general sense, that most people have about a year's worth of cash slash emergency stuff sort of in that bucket, if you will, or I guess in your parlance in the reservoir. But other than that, unless there was some unique rebalancing opportunity, and I'll give you an example of that. So the last year and a half, I've seen emerging markets just really go up a lot. I think they're up somewhere around 30% in that period of time. So if I was managing a portfolio, I might say, gosh, I really want to trim my winnings there a bit. That's really getting a little airy, a little out of out of ordinary. So I might want to sell those. And if I wasn't going to buy something in the portfolio, because today you'd be buying bonds, right? Because they've been down, then I might dump that in the reservoir just so I rebalance the account properly. But otherwise, I don't, I don't, I don't know that I can give you anything more specific than that because there is no right or wrong. I love the fact that you're thinking about all this stuff till a maybe a decade before you retire, something like that. Um, but I would, but I would, but I would be careful as to exactly what you said. You don't want to end up with too much in cash because that's going to be a drag on overall per portfolio performance um, you know, for for the people you're gonna leave that money for, or unless you're gonna have a really you know big time in your 80s or something, you know, whatever it is. Oh uh but but I I think the the fact that you're considering all this and that you've got your expenses figured out that way, it sounds pretty good to me.

SPEAKER_03 19:45

And it's the psychological part of it too. Don't have high risk have a high risk tolerance when money's coming in every two weeks. Yeah. Uh but then in that, just something where you don't have to uh you know compromise in retirement. You have that ability to do what you want when you want. So the psychological part of it is what appeals to me.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Aaron Powell Yeah. And I think this that plays into it very nicely, right? Because you really don't have to think at all about the current situation if you have a lot in cash, because you're not you're not worried about what's going on with stocks or bonds or the market or oil or all the rest of the stuff that comes up that really seems to wreak havoc on people and their overall behavioral situation. So, no, I love the fact that that that eliminates it. And uh, because that is, as we know, the biggest drag on overall performance is people wanting to sort of move in and out of markets depending on the current situation. I think you're doing pretty well here, sir. Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

No, I'm saying I definitely appreciate it. So again, uh my takeaway is that uh not maximizing the uh portfolio by that action, but um so might want to be a little more mindful about rebalancing uh the money if you do have a sector like you brought up, uh emerging market. Might want to move that over into something uh lower performing.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Yeah, exactly. It'd be taking from the winners giving to the the losers. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

Okay. Yeah. Well, I think that I think you uh gave me a yellow light. And I appreciate a yellow light.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

No, that's awesome. We really appreciate you listening and reaching out to us and uh hope we get to chat again soon.

SPEAKER_03 21:21

Yeah, and feel free to pass on to Don that I do like that music and I do like how much he enjoys it.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

Well, that's unfortunate, but now he's gonna know. So I can't do a dark on it since you you put it, you're on the show. So, Brian, thank you for your time today and you take care.

SPEAKER_07 21:34

Thank you guys. Take care. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. All right, now we're gonna take the questions that he decided were better read off of sheets of paper, his one great love paper. And uh let me let him catch his breath for a minute. Okay, great love. Here you go. Don't tell my wife you said that okay. Grab the paper. My children, my grandchildren, stroke its smooth white finish.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Okay, now now we're heading into. Bad direction here. So let's just not do that. What do you say? Uh, how about I just read it? Okay.

SPEAKER_07 22:06

If that makes you feel better.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Might not be well,

Bond Prices and Rates

SPEAKER_02 22:09

but I'll read it anyway. Little Elm, Texas, where David writes, Hello again, Don and Tom. I'm noticing since the beginning of March 2026, which I think is like six months ago, the prices of my holdings in BND, that's the Vanguard total bond.

SPEAKER_07 22:25

Oh, wait, let me let me let me let me guess. Your bond funds have gone down. Yes. Oh, there's a surprise.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

BSV ETFs have fallen 7% for BND and 4% for BSV over the past seven months, ending in September. Can you talk about this topic, please?

SPEAKER_07 22:43

Yes. Oh, bonds are too simple. Okay. High quality bonds are very, very safe from default, from dropping to zero. They are relatively protected from volatility because of that fact that high-quality bonds are unlikely to ever go to zero. A stock can go to zero. However, it's one little downside to bonds, and it affects longer-term bonds more than it than it affects shorter-term bonds, and that is interest rate fluctuations. If interest rates rise, then a bond that is still years away from maturing needs to cost you less for you to buy it. If there's a 5% bond out there, and there are, and there's an older bond that's only paying four, well, why would you buy the four percent bond at full face value when you could get a five percent bond at full face value? Therefore, I, as the owner of the four percent bond to get you to buy it, need to reduce the price by about twenty percent. That's just it for this for the for this illustration. And that would be an observable.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

So you're saying as interest rates went up, the value of the bonds went down.

SPEAKER_07 24:13

Yeah, I and that's something that I think we have a hard time understanding, though, because when you say it, it sounds counterintuitive. Yeah, it does. Rates went up and the bond went down? Yeah, because the old bonds have to charge less to get money into them. Now, that was not a a a clean illustration, but it was a it was an example.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Straightforward. Yeah, David goes on, it's affecting me because I'm coming up on the time for rebalancing. It looks like I'll be selling my more risky stock ETFs, which have done well this year, and buying these quote unquote even riskier bonds. No, see he will be he will be selling stocks and buying bonds to report rebalance a portfolio, but they're not riskier.

SPEAKER_07 24:54

No, they've never been riskier.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

By the way, when stocks go down, do they would it be unusual for them to go down three or four times as much as five or six or seven?

SPEAKER_07 25:05

Three or four times.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

That's or or eight or nine, or I mean a lot. So there's no comparison.

SPEAKER_07 25:11

Yeah, and here's oh we look at this backward because we tend to this day, ladies and gentlemen. We tend to we tend to want to look forward and we we can't. It's impossible. So you say, Well, I'm selling the stuff that is doing well. You're implying that I'm selling the stuff that will be doing well. That's not a that's not a leap of faith you can make. No, you can't say, Oh, all my stocks have done so well, I don't want to sell them. No, no, no, no, no. The whole point of rebalancing is to sell those things that have recently gone up and may go down someday, and buy those things that have recently gone down and may go up someday, or may be more stable. I'm not saying bond values, I have never expected bond prices ever, ever to go up.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

You shouldn't be counting on it, but they have made a decent return over the long haul. Decent.

SPEAKER_07 26:06

Only because we had falling interest rates from the 1980s through the 2020s.

MYGAs and Tax Deferral

SPEAKER_07 26:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

40 years of falling rates. Yeah. All right, let's go one more here before we run out of time. Richard from Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Hi, Don. Guess I'm out of this one. You had a couple of questions about mygas. I guess multi-year guaranteed annuity or something, right?

SPEAKER_07 26:29

A multi-year guaranteed annuity or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

On a recent podcast, you mentioned just deferring their income for the length of the myga, which is true, but you said you have to pay tax at the end of the term. This is technically true.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

But some continue to defer the tax earned by the myga by doing a 1035 exchange into someone, into another myga at the end of the term. I'm not recommending mygas per save. Never own one, but if someone's trying to defer the tax, this is a way to do it. Yeah, but you're just kicking that.

SPEAKER_07 27:00

What's the value of yeah, you gotta stay in an annuity product, which means you're gonna accept whatever the new rates are. And remember, these are insurance products. They even though they can claim, which again, I just hate that the insurance industry gets this right, to use the word guaranteed when the guarantee is only as good as the company. That's like that's like uh me saying, well, you know, I guarantee that I'm gonna borrow money from you, but I guarantee I'll pay you back. Well, how good is my guarantee? How good is their guarantee?

SPEAKER_02 27:31

You raised anybody's taxes lately, have you?

SPEAKER_07 27:33

No, I can't raise taxes to anyway. That's another point. Uh yes, if you do a 1035 exchange into another annuity, you can continue to defer taxes. But I think there's a much better way to defer taxes, and that's using growth-oriented vehicles. Equity funds, any non-realized capital gain is a deferred gain. And it can defer without you having to do an exchange. It just defers. And when you take the money out of a growth-oriented vehicle like a stock fund, you pay taxes at the capital gains rate, which is today substantially lower than the uh higher income brackets, which is what you pay on the annuities. So annuities aren't again they're they they serve some purposes, but the insurance industry would like you to think they serve all purposes because they make them lots of money that way.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

Yeah, and can I add one thing? Because this is something that does come up. When we answer your questions, we try to give a general answer. It doesn't cover everything this seems very, very specific.

SPEAKER_07 28:44

We don't, we leave a lot of details out because we have to say all those extra words.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

Yeah. It it we don't have that much time. So, um anyway, so yes, you can do, as in many cases, you know, an exchange like you could it with real estate. I don't know if that's the best. By the way, do you know how diversified your portfolio is? Hmm? How much small, how much value, how much profitability you got? Are you looking at me? Yeah. Yeah, I'm looking, I'm talking to you. I'm talking, you're the only one here. I'm talking to you. Uh if you'd like to know. If you'd like to know.

SPEAKER_06 29:20

A secret I wasn't gonna tell you. I was kind of hoping somebody else is listening, Tom.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

Oh, okay. Gotta be more careful about what I say. If you'd like to know, and you'd like to make sure you're all properly positioned for whatever's ahead, even though some of you are sure you know what that is, I wouldn't preclude

Portfolio Checkup Help

SPEAKER_02 29:39

to know. I wouldn't claim to have any idea what tomorrow brings. But if you want to know, guess what? Um, we do this free. We actually we just did it with a guy. We he sent us his stuff. What did you do with the guy? We we sent he sent us his stuff, and then he no, he disappeared. No, we we took all his statements and then we analyzed them and we showed him how much he had in big companies, how much in small, how much growth, value, et cetera, how much in U.S. international. He was shocked as to how little he's exposed to. For example, emerging markets, which have been the best place to be for the last year and a half. Doesn't mean they're gonna be the best place starting tomorrow, but you want to make sure you're exposed there. That's the kind of thing you've got to know about your portfolio if you're invested. So we do that free. We even have a conversation with you after that to say, here are the things you might change, etc. So if you want to do that, you just go to I think it's talkingrealmoney.com and click on meet and advisor, right? No, you think it's that? I think it's that. I'm always the have you ever been to talking? There's a website, right? Have you ever been gone to four websites in my life?

SPEAKER_06 30:47

Have you ever gone to talkingrealmoney.com?

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Oh, it's not a store, right? It's a place online.

SPEAKER_07 30:52

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_06 30:53

Don't don't don't uh don't try to to change the subject.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

We'd have to do it right after this.

SPEAKER_06 30:59

Have you been to talkingrealmoney.com?

SPEAKER_02 31:01

I I don't sit around, I don't sit around and listen to the show every day. You know that.

SPEAKER_07 31:05

No.

unknown 31:05

No.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

I listen to the Friday show because I don't know what's on it. I want to see what that's about.

SPEAKER_07 31:09

Ah, because that's a you already know what's on these.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

Exactly. You know, when I had a TV show, I didn't watch that either because I'd been there. Um so anyway, go to talkingrealmoney.com, click on meet an advisor.

SPEAKER_07 31:20

All right. And if you have questions, go to talkingrealmoney.com and uh type in your question or speak it using the microphone button. We'll put those on Fridays. And thanks so much for listening. Please tell a friend or two or ten and hit the follow button. Hit that follow button on your podcast app. I don't know what it does, but something amazing apparently. And keep listening as we, that's me and him, are talking real money.

Disclosure and Disclaimers

SPEAKER_01 31:51

The opinions and views expressed on this podcast were current on the date recorded. Opinions, estimates, forecasts, and statements of financial market trends that are based on current market conditions constitute our judgment and our subjects change without notice, including any forward-looking estimates or statements which are based on certain expectations and assumptions. Although information and opinions given have been obtained from or based on sources believed to be reliable, no warranty or representation is made as to their correctness, completeness, or accuracy. Information presented on the podcast is not personalized investment advice from Oppello Wealth. The views and strategies described may not be suitable for everyone. This podcast does not identify all the risks, direct or indirect or other considerations which might be material to you when entering any financial transaction. Past performance does not guarantee feature results, and profitable results cannot be guaranteed. We hope you realize that the information provided on Talking Real Money is for informational, educational, and hopefully enjoyable purposes only. The podcast is not trying to get you to buy or sell any financial products or securities. Instead, the program is provided as a public service by Appello Wealth, a fee-only registered investment advisor. Please see Appello Wealth's ADV Part 2A on our website for information regarding Appello's fees and services. Apello Capital, LLC DBA Appello Wealth, is an investment advisory firm registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The firm only transacts business in the states where it is properly registered or excluded or exempt from registration requirements. Registration with the SEC or any state securities authority does not imply a certain level of skill or training. Apello does not provide tax or legal advice, and nothing either stated or implied here should be inferred as providing such advice. Thanks for listening, and please visit talkingrealmoney.com for more information and important disclosure related to performance of any specific index or fund quoted in this podcast. And the lawyers get richer.